Why use software for geneaology?

[Gjest]

[email protected] (Robert Melson) wrote:

All told, the choice between pGV and TNG is really a matter of individual
preference. _I_ like pGV, not least because it's free. Because, like Dave,
I've worked in IT for the past mumble years,

Thanks Bob you've been a big help

[Robert Melson]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] writes:

[email protected] (Robert Melson) wrote:

All told, the choice between pGV and TNG is really a matter of individual
preference. _I_ like pGV, not least because it's free. Because, like Dave,
I've worked in IT for the past mumble years,

Thanks Bob you've been a big help

Shucks, t'warn't nuthin'.

If you'd like to continue this discussion off-group, drop me an email at my
reply-to address, above. I can't promise that I have all the answers, and
much of what I have to say about phpGedView is entirely subjective, but I do
try to be an "honest broker" and will admit when I don't have an answer.

Bob



--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation." Thomas Reed
-----

[Gjest]

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

Legacy's reports are really good, better than PAF's in my opinion. PAF,
however, has a more logical workflow for entering hundreds of names
(important for transcribing data from books into the system).

Interesting. You would think that Legacy or even Legacy
deluxe would have just as good data entry features as
the free PAF. No?

Sounds like I might want to enter data in locally on my
PC suing PAF even if I will eventually go to The Next
generation? That is.... get the grunt work done in PAF?

One thing I need to ask and haven't. That is can these
softwares let me type in a very rich detailed "story"
of the persons life? Or is it just simple relationship
and info such as birth date.... death date?

What I'm wanting to do is type a very detailed and rich
history of my Moms life. I intend to get bits and
pieces from my siblings. Stories from my sister abt my
Mom. From my brother. Etc. Can I do that in ANY of
these softwares?

Example.... I remember my Mom telling us over and over
about the one time she was laying in bed and all the
sudden the house was full of lightning bugs everywhere.
Seems that my oldest brother had been outside catching
them and when everyone went to sleep he let them go
INSIDE the house!! Ha!! My Mom thought she was going
crazy until she found out where they came from.

As we all got older... my Mom laughed a lot when
retelling this story!

Can I write such stories in these apps?

[Gjest]

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

So how hard is it to do your own hosting?

I'm the wrong person to ask; I've been making money in the IT world for,
er, 25+ years, so to me it's about as natural as breathing.

yeah one of these days I'm gonna setup a real server to
play with.

Tell me... can I use my current desktop as a server as
well as a workstation?

Do both functions at same time?

Or is it generally better to have physically separate
machine for this?

I'm in market for a new PC.... looking at a dual core
Athlon with LOTS of ram. And the I was gonna get
VMWare and setup "virtual" computers with that one
computer

Could I use one of these virtual PCS as a home server?

[cecilia]

[email protected] wrote:

[....] Legacy [...] PAF
[....] can these
softwares let me type in a very rich detailed "story"
of the persons life? Or is it just simple relationship
and info such as birth date.... death date?
[...]

You can put what you like in Notes.

There may be a limit (way below the size of a novel), though I haven't
met it.

In which (or any) case, you might prefer to put the story in an
"ordinary" file (a text file, or possibly in html format), and include a
hyperlink to that file in the notes for the individual. The advantage
of this method is that the links to a story involving more than one
person can be made accessible from each. In order for it to work, the
linked-to files need to be in a folder that is always in the same place
relative to the linked-from files created by Legacy or PAF.

One of PAF and Legacy turns hyperlink code into links when creating web
pages - off-hand I cannot remember which.

[Robert Melson]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] writes:

snip
Tell me... can I use my current desktop as a server as
well as a workstation?

I'd say it pretty much depends on the operating system you're running. I'll
say up-front that I have no confidence in Windows' ability to successfully
perform both tasks - but, then, I have no confidence in Windows to start with.

I run FreeBSD - a unix-like operating system -- on all my computers and have
no problem with using my principal machine as both a desktop and a web- and
database server.

Do both functions at same time?

Yep.

Or is it generally better to have physically separate
machine for this?

It's always best, from a performance point of view, to separate functions.
Economically, of course, is another question.

I'm in market for a new PC.... looking at a dual core
Athlon with LOTS of ram. And the I was gonna get
VMWare and setup "virtual" computers with that one
computer

Could I use one of these virtual PCS as a home server?

As I understand VMWare, it runs as a task under whatever operating system
you've installed it on. How successful a virtual computer would be as a
server would, I think, depend on it's access to system services and the
underlying hardware. I've not used VMWare recently, so really can't comment
on that.

Bob


--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation." Thomas Reed
-----

[Gjest]

[email protected] (cecilia) wrote:

The advantage
of this method is that the links to a story involving more than one
person can be made accessible from each

That almost sounds like a wiki to me!!

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 15:04:47 GMT, [email protected] (cecilia) wrote:

Robert Melson wrote:
A posting tip or two.
[...]
(2) when replying to several points in a single article, intersperse your
comments with the points you're responding to, rather than posting multiple
replies to a single article. This keeps the thread of the "conversation"
intact and generally makes it easier to follow arguments/questions.
[...]

Or separate the points in a number of replies. Some people find
interspersed comments difficult to spot.

The > and >> characters are there to help people to spot them.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Steve Hayes]

On 2 Aug 2005 17:28:37 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

For Joe User with a Windows PC, if you tell 'em to back up the whole
system, they'll find it to be cumbersome and annoying and won't do it.
If you tell 'em to back up at least their important stuff, there's a
better chance that they'll do it at all. So, you trade ease of restore
for "having nothing to restore".

The trouble is that when you upgrade you lose functionality.

My CD Writer's rubber band broke.

It was easier to replace the drive than to replace the rubber band (I tried
all over town, nobody had them).

But the new drive came with Nero software, instead of the Adaptec software
that the old drive had, and the Nero software was less functional than the
Adaptec software. Specifically, the Nero software could not format CD-ROMs.
And the Adaptec software, which COULD format CD-ROMs, would not work on the
new drive.

So my batchfiles, which back up all my important data with a single command,
would no longer work.

So backing up becomes much more of a hassle -- all that dragging and dropping
is a real drag, man! And I can never remember what I dragged and dropped last
time.

But now I have one of those USB memory thingies, which I use to transfer data
between my laptop and my desktop machines, and that does something similar to
what the old backup did. Here's the batch file I use:

echo Copying transfer files from Steve's Desktop to Flash ROM
c:
Echo Copying FHS files
e:
cd \Family\Famhist
move *.fil f:\FHSBack
pause
REM move *.tmp f:\FHSback
pause
move *.bak f:\FHSback
pause
Echo Copying askSam files
cd \asksam
move *.tmp f:\tempback
move *.bak f:\tempback
move *.sav f:\tempback
f:
cd \Archives
arj u -r FHSTrans e:\family
arj u -r Inmagic e:\Inmagic
arj u -r Textfile g:\Textfile
arj u -r AskSam e:\asksam
arj u -r PAFFiles e:\paf
bac *.arj j:
Echo Copying Legacy data files
e:
cd \Legacy\Data
bac *.* j:\Legacy\Data
cd \Legacy\Pictures
bac *.* j:\Legacy\Pictures
cd \
Dir j:
pause



--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 15:57:18 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

"Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
"
Why Legacy?
Is it cause its just THAT good?

It really is, yes.

I want to pick good software to start off with. Hence
the question

I like PAF for entering data, and Legacy for reporting, of the Windows
apps.

I'm a bit confused Dave

If Legacy is so good then why would you use PAF for
data entry?

And how exactly does that work? You type data into PAF
then export it as gedcom to create reports in Legacy?

If yes....sounds kind of cumbersome.

My system is even more cumbersome:

I type stuff into Family History System (DOS program, last updated 1993).

When I've accumulated several new entries, I export them as a GEDCOM file,
which I then import into PAF 4.x.

I then import the PAF file into Legacy.

Why do all this?

Well FHS has some features that I like, and that no other program I know has.

1) It exports easily to other programs. Specifically, it exports NEW DATA to
other programs easily.

When I want to export a new batch (to Legacy, PAF, or any other program) I
look at the highest RIN in say, Legacy. Say its 11456. Then I tell FHS to
export all records from 11457 up as a GEDCOM file.

If any other program is able to do that, I don't know how to tell it to do it.
It's all seems very comples. But with FHS it's easy, just enter the number
11457 and tell it to export records with that RIN and higher, and it does it.

2) FHS does free-form Ascii reports that can be posted in queries in
newsgroups, mailing lists etc.

This saves a lot of typing. Someone says "Does anyhone have any Murgatroyds in
Essex. I go into FHS, produce a report, post it, and say "these are mine,
recognise anyone?"

Why do I go through PAF when exporting to Legacy?

Well for some reason I don't understand, when Legacy imports a GEDCOM file, it
somehow scrambles the RINs, and when it imports a PAF file it doesn't.

3) Why do I use Legacy and not just FHS or PAF?

Legacy has lots of featrues that FHS lacks - ability to store pictures, source
information not just in notes, better-looking paper reports, and To-Do lists
for research tasks, so that when I'm going to a record repository I can print
out a list of all the things I want to do there.

Legacy has its shortcomings (there are others apart from those I've mentioned)
but it has far fewer than most other programs I've used.



--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On 2 Aug 2005 17:28:37 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> declaimed
the following in soc.genealogy.computing:

Well, it depends on the computer and what you've got on it. For me,

I've just spent a week installing the eclipse IDE and accessory
plug-ins. The main installer for that is something like 130MB alone
(over a dial-up connection yet!). Then there are downloaded image files,
non-deleted emails, other captured data.

I do not, however, backup video from miniDV (13GB/hour of
video)... Those get written back to miniDV tape <G>

backing up my .mp3 collection would be silly; they're already on CDs, I
just put 'em on the Mac for convenience. The OS, there's no point in
backing up _for my needs_, because I'm comfortable doing a non-intrusive
re-install (which I've never known to be needed on a Mac in the first
place) if I needed to.

You may have missed where I said "incremental" -- that's only

the files that have changes since my last backup... A full backup (I run
one a year, typically) will (based on today's listing) consume 80GB (if
compression fits 5GB per DVD that makes 16 DVDs for a full backup).

While I've NEVER had to recover a Windows install (and the only
Windows install I've done was on my old laptop, after getting a new one
-- at that time (Summer 2003) I finally installed the W98 that Dell
shipped me back in 1998)... The new machine really needs an OS backup
done -- It was one of those Pre-activated WinXP systems, which means NO
OS INSTALL DISK!. There is a Dell utility partition that can,
supposedly, restore the drive to "as shipped" -- but that would wipe out
all my partitioning and data too, and is useless if the drive itself
fails.

So, my first task was to use a backup utility to create a
bootable image of the original machine... Then add all my software,
etc.... and run normal backups.

For Joe User with a Windows PC, if you tell 'em to back up the whole
system, they'll find it to be cumbersome and annoying and won't do it.
If you tell 'em to back up at least their important stuff, there's a
better chance that they'll do it at all. So, you trade ease of restore
for "having nothing to restore".

Incremental back-ups: the first backup will do everything, yes
-- so warn them about that, they should be able to get through it once.
Then incrementals will only do changed files -- do have to emphasize
that they need to keep all back-up disks, not throwing out older ones.
--

==============================================================
[email protected] | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
[email protected] | Bestiaria Support Staff
==============================================================
Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/
Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 17:28:40 -0500, [email protected] declaimed the
following in soc.genealogy.computing:

One thing I need to ask and haven't. That is can these
softwares let me type in a very rich detailed "story"
of the persons life? Or is it just simple relationship
and info such as birth date.... death date?

Most can carry some of that data -- but how fluently is another

matter.

The programs from LDS (and the GEDCOM transfer format) were
basically optimized for pure blood relationship details -- that's the
goal of the LDS, they aren't interested in "history" but rather
"bloodline".

Many have a generic "Note" capability, and may even allow more
than one note per person.

Event-based programs, like the late UFT and current TMG, allow
for custom sentences/memos per event, including witnesses to the event.
TMG also has events for Note, Anecdote, Biography, Description, etc.
(You can create your own too). These events, besides having a big memo
field, can have customized sentences defined to present the memo data.

Witnesses actually link the other individuals to an event.
Instead of just having a "note" attached to "baby Huey"'s baptism that
says "Auntie Em, Uncle Joe, and Cousin It were in attendance", they'd
actually be linked to the baptism. If you looked at "Cousin It"s data,
there would be an event reading "witness:<date>:memo text". You don't
have to go to "Cousin It"s page and add a note saying It was present at
"baby Huey"'s baptism.


{Heh, what a family... Wizard of Oz, Addam's Family, a fat Comic book
duck, and where ever "Uncle Joe" comes from}

A real example (names obscured) Narrative form:

J*** ***1 was born in in Avon, Lorain, Ohio, on October 10, 1850.1 J***
was listed as a member of a Roman Catholic church in in North Dorr,
Kent, Michigan. He married C*** *** on November 11, 1873 in in North
Dorr, Kent, Michigan.1 The area was relatively wild with abundant bear
and turkey. There is a story of Mrs. P*** chasing a bear from the log
house, which did not have a solid door. Rattlesnakes were also common,
causing J*** to wear high rubber boots year round for farming or
building. He and C*** *** lived on a farm, originally purchased by her
father, in in Section 36, Jamestown, Ottawa, Michigan. He was a
carpenter in in Jamestown, Ottawa, Michigan. He built Mitchel and
Gitchel Schools in Jamestown Township. He also built Sycamore and
Plainview Schools in Dorr Township.2 He purchased land on August 6,
1881 in in Section 36, Jamestown, Ottawa, Michigan, from M*** ***. J***
died of cancer of the esophagus, on August 1, 1920 in in Byron, Kent,
Michigan, at age 69.3 His body was interred in at Visitation Cemetery,
in North Dorr, Kent, Michigan.

The section "The area...farming or building" is an anecdote
event, with a sort (nonprinting) date set to position the output where
it is. "He built... Dorr Township" are memo attached to the employment
event. I think I had "birth-alt" events suppressed, or there would be a
sentence of the form "Conflicting evidence indicates he was born ..."

{I see I need to adjust the report options to suppress an "in", I'm
getting doubles "in in" along with "in at" -- the report option is set
to print a fixed "in" but I have place styles that include "in" or "at"
as appropriate.}

--

==============================================================
[email protected] | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
[email protected] | Bestiaria Support Staff
==============================================================
Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/
Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

[Hugh Watkins]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

Legacy's reports are really good, better than PAF's in my opinion. PAF,
however, has a more logical workflow for entering hundreds of names
(important for transcribing data from books into the system).

Interesting. You would think that Legacy or even Legacy
deluxe would have just as good data entry features as
the free PAF. No?

Sounds like I might want to enter data in locally on my
PC suing PAF even if I will eventually go to The Next
generation? That is.... get the grunt work done in PAF?

One thing I need to ask and haven't. That is can these
softwares let me type in a very rich detailed "story"
of the persons life? Or is it just simple relationship
and info such as birth date.... death date?

What I'm wanting to do is type a very detailed and rich
history of my Moms life. I intend to get bits and
pieces from my siblings. Stories from my sister abt my
Mom. From my brother. Etc. Can I do that in ANY of
these softwares?

Example.... I remember my Mom telling us over and over
about the one time she was laying in bed and all the
sudden the house was full of lightning bugs everywhere.
Seems that my oldest brother had been outside catching
them and when everyone went to sleep he let them go
INSIDE the house!! Ha!! My Mom thought she was going
crazy until she found out where they came from.

As we all got older... my Mom laughed a lot when
retelling this story!

Can I write such stories in these apps?

off course you can
you are really being silly in expecting all this hand holding
get some of the freebies PAF for example
and start experimenting

FTM2005 single cd for $29 is my personal recomendation

make a startt

Hugh W

[cecilia]

Steve Hayes wrote:

[...] Some people find
interspersed comments difficult to spot.

The > and >> characters are there to help people to spot them.

As are colours in some readers - I don't find these aids are sufficient.

[Dave Hinz]

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 17:28:40 -0500, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

Legacy's reports are really good, better than PAF's in my opinion. PAF,
however, has a more logical workflow for entering hundreds of names
(important for transcribing data from books into the system).

Interesting. You would think that Legacy or even Legacy
deluxe would have just as good data entry features as
the free PAF. No?

Well, it might very well be just as good, but I got used to doing it in
PAF, and my fingers know when to hit tab to get where. Actually, I
think it might be not using the mouse during data entry - been a couple
years since I went Mac, so I don't remember specifically.

Sounds like I might want to enter data in locally on my
PC suing PAF even if I will eventually go to The Next
generation? That is.... get the grunt work done in PAF?

I don't speak "NG" so I don't know. If I was going to start over, I'd
probably do most or all of it in the online tool, in my case the
phpgedview because I understand it. What's your deciding factor between
NG and PGV?

One thing I need to ask and haven't. That is can these
softwares let me type in a very rich detailed "story"
of the persons life? Or is it just simple relationship
and info such as birth date.... death date?

"Notes" is the field you're looking for. I use it for _everything_ -
comments about where the records conflict, what the person did, a recipe
or poem they wrote, etc.

What I'm wanting to do is type a very detailed and rich
history of my Moms life. I intend to get bits and
pieces from my siblings. Stories from my sister abt my
Mom. From my brother. Etc. Can I do that in ANY of
these softwares?

You bet, but there may be size limits to that field so check into that.
Bob or Bob may know.

Example.... I remember my Mom telling us over and over
about the one time she was laying in bed and all the
sudden the house was full of lightning bugs everywhere.
Seems that my oldest brother had been outside catching
them and when everyone went to sleep he let them go
INSIDE the house!! Ha!! My Mom thought she was going
crazy until she found out where they came from.

Heh...I better not tell my daughter about that idea.

As we all got older... my Mom laughed a lot when
retelling this story!

Can I write such stories in these apps?

Check to make sure that it exports cleanly and the size limitations.
Either way, write the stories.

[Dave Hinz]

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 23:36:08 GMT, Robert Melson <[email protected]> wrote:

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] writes:

snip
Tell me... can I use my current desktop as a server as
well as a workstation?

I'd say it pretty much depends on the operating system you're running. I'll
say up-front that I have no confidence in Windows' ability to successfully
perform both tasks - but, then, I have no confidence in Windows to start with.

With windows, I'd be hesitant, but I'm biased due to years of in-depth
exposure to it.

Or is it generally better to have physically separate
machine for this?

It's always best, from a performance point of view, to separate functions.
Economically, of course, is another question.

If it's a Linux or BSD or Mac box (OK, if it's any Unix box) I wouldn't
worry about it, at all. Webserver load, unless you're getting thousands
of hits per hour, is trivial to the CPU - it's all network I/O. The app
might take a few cycles, but it's intermittant.

I'm in market for a new PC.... looking at a dual core
Athlon with LOTS of ram. And the I was gonna get
VMWare and setup "virtual" computers with that one
computer
Could I use one of these virtual PCS as a home server?

As I understand VMWare, it runs as a task under whatever operating system
you've installed it on. How successful a virtual computer would be as a
server would, I think, depend on it's access to system services and the
underlying hardware.

Put it this way, Bob. We're looking at _replacing_ our infrastructure
at work, which currently is enterprise-class Sun hardware, with 8-way
Intel boxes running VMware and many virtual machines. And I'm talking
web servers, application servers, heavy heavy lifting going on there.
VMware has been production-ready for, well, I've been using it in
production on my (you know, the ones at work I get paged for when things
go wrong, therefore 'my') networks since at least 2000.

I've not used VMWare recently, so really can't comment
on that.

It's even better than it was. On the fly switching of VMs from one
machine to another, dynamically assign resources to running VMs, it's
just a beautiful thing.

[Dave Hinz]

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 06:37:35 +0200, Steve Hayes <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2 Aug 2005 17:28:37 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

For Joe User with a Windows PC, if you tell 'em to back up the whole
system, they'll find it to be cumbersome and annoying and won't do it.
If you tell 'em to back up at least their important stuff, there's a
better chance that they'll do it at all. So, you trade ease of restore
for "having nothing to restore".

The trouble is that when you upgrade you lose functionality.

Sure, but if the tradeoff is "I didn't do backups at all", better they
back up their important stuff and let the local geek recover the system
to put the important stuff back on. Drivers can be recreated; research
can't.

My CD Writer's rubber band broke.
It was easier to replace the drive than to replace the rubber band (I tried
all over town, nobody had them).

Well, sure. They're worth less than one hour of tech time, so therefore
disposable.

But the new drive came with Nero software, instead of the Adaptec software
that the old drive had, and the Nero software was less functional than the
Adaptec software. Specifically, the Nero software could not format CD-ROMs.
And the Adaptec software, which COULD format CD-ROMs, would not work on the
new drive.

Man, I don't miss Windows.

But now I have one of those USB memory thingies, which I use to transfer data
between my laptop and my desktop machines, and that does something similar to
what the old backup did.

FYI - I've had one of those corrupt files on me (in my case, XP SP2 for
the "friends and family support"). They're fine to carry data, but not
to back it up.

Dave Hinz

[Gjest]

It's even better than it was. On the fly switching of VMs from one
machine to another, dynamically assign resources to running VMs, it's
just a beautiful thing.

For those who don't know there actually is a VMWare
newsgroup to converse on.

This is off topic..... but what led me to VMWare was
that I'm going to college at the ripe old age of 47....
and am "thinking" of getting an IT degree

well one of the things I wanted was a home computer
lab. A test lab where I could setup servers and PC and
muck with everything. Originally I was gonna get
several stand alone PCs to do this with but someone
suggested I should look into a single heavy duty PC and
VMWare to create my "test lab" with. That way I only
have one set of hardware .... taking up space....
creating heat... etc.

So..... bottom line.... it does sound like I could use
VMWare to create a web server "machine" on the very
same machine I will be suing as a desktop.

[Doug McDonald]

Steve Hayes wrote:

When I want to export a new batch (to Legacy, PAF, or any other program) I
look at the highest RIN in say, Legacy. Say its 11456. Then I tell FHS to
export all records from 11457 up as a GEDCOM file.

If any other program is able to do that, I don't know how to tell it to do it.

Legacy does it easily. You just do a search for the RIN > whatever and
export the focus groups, set to search list.

There are many things that Legacy does not do ... for example, tell
me how many times somebody is the ancestor of somebody else ... and
it does not do graphical charts, but otherwise I like its capabilities.

For those "other" tasks, I've broken down and written my own program
in C++ .. which is great because it does exactly identically what I
really want.

Doug McDonald

[Dave Hinz]

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 09:01:45 -0500, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

It's even better than it was. On the fly switching of VMs from one
machine to another, dynamically assign resources to running VMs, it's
just a beautiful thing.

For those who don't know there actually is a VMWare
newsgroup to converse on.

This is off topic.....

Ehhh...topic drift happens. There are probably exactly 3 people reading
this thread at this point.

but what led me to VMWare was
that I'm going to college at the ripe old age of 47....
and am "thinking" of getting an IT degree

Degrees are, IMO, overrated. When I interview people, I look for what
they've been doing, how it relates to what we're doing, and I especially
like asking what their home network looks like. If you told me, for
instance,

well one of the things I wanted was a home computer
lab. A test lab where I could setup servers and PC and
muck with everything. Originally I was gonna get
several stand alone PCs to do this with but someone
suggested I should look into a single heavy duty PC and
VMWare to create my "test lab" with. That way I only
have one set of hardware .... taking up space....

....something like that, that'd be a _huge_ advantage over other people
interviewing. "Well, I've got Linux, Mac, Windows, and Solaris systems,
I use blah for this, blurgh for that, blarfurl for something else, and
have files and printers shared with (protocol) running on (OS)", well
that's worth a hell of a lot more than some random CS degree.

So..... bottom line.... it does sound like I could use
VMWare to create a web server "machine" on the very
same machine I will be suing as a desktop.

Sure. The question is if you want windows to be the native OS, or the
VM OS. Windows runs completely transparent in VMware; if anything, it
behaves better because it's dealing with VMWare's HAL rather than the
actual hardware. I've been running corporate standard Windows builds
inside VMware for, as I say, 5+ years, and they don't have any idea that
they're not running on native hardware. Performance isn't noticably
degraded. If you're gaming or doing 3D graphics, yeah, run Windows
native and run Linux or BSD in the VM. If you want to email me with
specific questions, feel free.

Dave Hinz

[Gjest]

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

Degrees are, IMO, overrated.

I agree Dave. But still its something I wish I had done
at age of 20.... NOT 47.

The way I look at is.... a degree is just another
"tool" in the toolbox. If I need it... its there. If
I don't... no big deal

Sure. The question is if you want windows to be the native OS, or the
VM OS.

I don't know. What would YOU do?

I do CAD drawings for a living. Solids modeling
actually. So Id guess Id want to do some of that at
home..... training purposes.

Given that info.... would you run Windows under VMWare
for Linux? Or vice versa?

[Robert Melson]

In article <[email protected]>,
Dave Hinz <[email protected]> writes:
<snip>

Or is it generally better to have physically separate
machine for this?

It's always best, from a performance point of view, to separate functions.
Economically, of course, is another question.

If it's a Linux or BSD or Mac box (OK, if it's any Unix box) I wouldn't
worry about it, at all. Webserver load, unless you're getting thousands
of hits per hour, is trivial to the CPU - it's all network I/O. The app
might take a few cycles, but it's intermittant.

And I should have been clearer - a "consumer" box in a strictly home
environment, running a decent operating system should be able to handle both
serving and desktop standing on its head. OTOH, if the box is running the
Gates universal computer virus, IMNSHO it'd be best to divide the load between
two boxes.

snip
As I understand VMWare, it runs as a task under whatever operating system
you've installed it on. How successful a virtual computer would be as a
server would, I think, depend on it's access to system services and the
underlying hardware.

Put it this way, Bob. We're looking at _replacing_ our infrastructure
at work, which currently is enterprise-class Sun hardware, with 8-way
Intel boxes running VMware and many virtual machines. And I'm talking
web servers, application servers, heavy heavy lifting going on there.
VMware has been production-ready for, well, I've been using it in
production on my (you know, the ones at work I get paged for when things
go wrong, therefore 'my') networks since at least 2000.

I've not used VMWare recently, so really can't comment
on that.

It's even better than it was. On the fly switching of VMs from one
machine to another, dynamically assign resources to running VMs, it's
just a beautiful thing.

Sounds good. I'll have to explore - again. Part of the reason I've not used

VMWare recently is that I have no real need for it. But, geek that I am, I'm
always interested in something neat that does well what it's designed to do.

Bob


--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation." Thomas Reed
-----

[Dave Hinz]

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 12:36:43 -0500, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

Sure. The question is if you want windows to be the native OS, or the
VM OS.

I don't know. What would YOU do?

I'd drop 150 bucks on a bare-bones motherboard, throw it in an old case,
and run Linux native on it and use that for the web/PHP/Mysql server.

I do CAD drawings for a living. Solids modeling
actually. So Id guess Id want to do some of that at
home..... training purposes.

SDRC, or another one?

Given that info.... would you run Windows under VMWare
for Linux? Or vice versa?

The VM will be only as stable as the OS that's hosting the vmware
application. Windows VM in a Linux host system is a more stable
combination than a Linux VM in a Windows host system, because there
yoyu're limited to Windows' inherent stability. I'd go with a separate
system. If you don't want to, I'd try a Linux install with a Windows
VM. You can do this by being creative with your hard drives, and use
your existing hard drive as the bootable drive for the VM - no changes
to it other than maybe the MBR to get linux to boot first.

[Robert Melson]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] writes:

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

Degrees are, IMO, overrated.

I agree Dave. But still its something I wish I had done
at age of 20.... NOT 47.

I started my quest for an MSCS in my 40s - what was difficult was accepting
that all those "kids" actually knew something and that I had to run hard not
only to keep up but to catch up.

Degrees are overrated except that many hiring managers, HR folks are impressed
by them and certifications and can't see beyond those pieces of paper. They do
make nice decorations in your cubicle, however.

The way I look at is.... a degree is just another
"tool" in the toolbox. If I need it... its there. If
I don't... no big deal

See above.

Sure. The question is if you want windows to be the native OS, or the
VM OS.

I don't know. What would YOU do?

I do CAD drawings for a living. Solids modeling
actually. So Id guess Id want to do some of that at
home..... training purposes.

Given that info.... would you run Windows under VMWare
for Linux? Or vice versa?

I'm not really competent to answer these questions, but based on what Dave
has said, I think I'd be inclined to to M$ under VMWare - that way you have
the advantage of a stable operating environment (linux/unix) and Gatesware and
its potential for the unexpected is confined to the virtual machine.

Bob

--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation." Thomas Reed
-----

[Gjest]

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

I do CAD drawings for a living. Solids modeling
actually. So Id guess Id want to do some of that at
home..... training purposes.

SDRC, or another one?

Autodesk Inventor

[Denis Beauregard]

Le Wed, 03 Aug 2005 12:36:43 -0500, [email protected] écrivait dans
soc.genealogy.computing:

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

Degrees are, IMO, overrated.

I agree Dave. But still its something I wish I had done
at age of 20.... NOT 47.

There are many things that are different at 20 and 47 (I am
49 by the way). In 1978, Internet was in no way a tool to
help in genealogy. Computer softwares were very different.
No PC (but there were Apple II and S-100 computers with very
limited resources compared to today's). I was still a student
and in 1978, out of about 30 or 40 students in one class, only
3 or 4 were using a terminal, the other were on cards. Don't
think to be very efficiency in genealogy with that set up but
I must say the first databases I made for genealogy were created
in the early 1980s.

So, the environment is not the same at all. And interests are neither
the same. At 20, you have disco dancing, bars, meeting girls,
learning as much computer languages as you can, proving the oldies
are too old to do something fun or efficient, etc.

But some people were bitten by the genealogy virus when they were
7 or 10 years old.

The way I look at is.... a degree is just another
"tool" in the toolbox. If I need it... its there. If
I don't... no big deal

Sure. The question is if you want windows to be the native OS, or the
VM OS.

I don't know. What would YOU do?

I do CAD drawings for a living. Solids modeling
actually. So Id guess Id want to do some of that at
home..... training purposes.

Given that info.... would you run Windows under VMWare
for Linux? Or vice versa?

It depends on what softwares you want to run and for how many
times.

Windows softwares will slowly move to Win XP/2k only platform,
so there will be less and less win 9x compatible recent releases.
And when Longhorn will be available, you will see no more Win 9x
recent softwares. Future CD-burners for example will not be
compatible for a Win 98 computer.

Linux softwares, on another hand, will survive for a longer time.
When they are open source, someone else can adapt one to a new
hardware. You won't lose a software because someone has decided
to make more money by forcing you to no more use it (i.e. by having
no version compatible with Longhorn because for stricly financial
reasons, Longhorn will not run Win XP/9x softwares: in Linux, find the
source and recompile and that is.


Denis

[Steve Hayes]

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 09:49:51 GMT, [email protected] (cecilia) wrote:

Steve Hayes wrote:
[...] Some people find
interspersed comments difficult to spot.

The > and >> characters are there to help people to spot them.

As are colours in some readers - I don't find these aids are sufficient.

Both my readers have colour distinctions as well, and one even puts in the
initials of the previous posters.

But there's one other thing -- leave a line between the text you quite and the
new text you write.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[cecilia]

Steve Hayes wrote:

Both my readers have colour distinctions as well, and one even puts in the
initials of the previous posters.

But there's one other thing -- leave a line between the text you quite and the
new text you write.

I find (this is a personal thing) that too much decoration at the left
of lines becomes irritating, and skimmed - another reason why I don't
always spot an interleaved remark.

The line gap is a desirable, but, sadly, oft omitted, feature.

[singhals]

[email protected] wrote:

So..... bottom line.... it does sound like I could use
VMWare to create a web server "machine" on the very
same machine I will be suing as a desktop.

I'd think that you'd be investigating the possible security issues
there, 'specially seeing's how you're not even using your real name or
ISP to ask questions.

JMO.

Cheryl

[Dave Hinz]

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 15:49:05 -0400, singhals <[email protected]> wrote:

[email protected] wrote:


So..... bottom line.... it does sound like I could use
VMWare to create a web server "machine" on the very
same machine I will be suing as a desktop.

I'd think that you'd be investigating the possible security issues
there, 'specially seeing's how you're not even using your real name or
ISP to ask questions.

Well, the VM doesn't know it's a VM, it thinks it's got the hardware all
to itself. So, the security model is no different than two systems on
the same network, because it _is_ two systems on the same network - they
just share the same chassis.

About his login, though, yes, you have a point. [email protected] has been
used by hundreds or thousands of people over the years, most of them
trolls. It's refreshing to see one who isn't and who seems to be using
it for purposes other than the usual ones.

"me", there are plenty of other good ways to avoid getting spam, if
that's your reason for it. By sort-of hiding in a way used by countless
people doing the same thing for less honorable reasons, you probably
have lost out on advice from at least one very knowledgeable, but
noticably absent member of the group.

Dave Hinz

[Gjest]

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

About his login, though, yes, you have a point. [email protected] has been
used by hundreds or thousands of people over the years, most of them
trolls. It's refreshing to see one who isn't and who seems to be using
it for purposes other than the usual ones.

Trust me.... I'm not a troll.. Do I sound like a troll
in my questioning?

"me", there are plenty of other good ways to avoid getting spam, if
that's your reason for it. By sort-of hiding in a way used by countless
people doing the same thing for less honorable reasons, you probably
have lost out on advice from at least one very knowledgeable, but
noticably absent member of the group.

I started suing this address after getting BOMBED with
thousands of spam emails when using real Yahoo address
a few years ago. It effective made that Yahoo address
unusable.

Sorry guys..... but I'm still staying with
"[email protected]"

I really don't understand anyone "beef" abt that.<sigh>

[Dave Hinz]

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 18:42:53 -0500, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

About his login, though, yes, you have a point. [email protected] has been
used by hundreds or thousands of people over the years, most of them
trolls. It's refreshing to see one who isn't and who seems to be using
it for purposes other than the usual ones.

Trust me.... I'm not a troll.. Do I sound like a troll
in my questioning?

No, you've missed my point. Over the years, that "handle" has been used
mostly _by_ trolls, which is why I pointed it out, and why I said it's
refreshing to see that you're a counterexample.

"me", there are plenty of other good ways to avoid getting spam, if
that's your reason for it. By sort-of hiding in a way used by countless
people doing the same thing for less honorable reasons, you probably
have lost out on advice from at least one very knowledgeable, but
noticably absent member of the group.

I started suing this address after getting BOMBED with
thousands of spam emails when using real Yahoo address
a few years ago. It effective made that Yahoo address
unusable.

I pay spamcop.net 20 or 30 bucks a year, and they block 98-99% of my
incoming spam. I ignore entire continents by blacklist, and spamcop
lets me use as many of the realtime blackhole lists that I want to.
Very effective, great interface options, and it lets me use my real
email address without worrying about how much crap shows up in the
"held mail" folder. I used to check it to make sure nothing legitimate
got in there, but in probably 100 times checking for real mail, I never
found any. I don't check anymore.

Sorry guys..... but I'm still staying with
"[email protected]"

That's fine, I just wanted you to be aware that that login, and ones
like it, have some baggage attatched to them.

I really don't understand anyone "beef" abt that.<sigh

You have confused me raising your awareness, with me taking issue with
it. It's not like I haven't been conversing with you for a while, is
it? Or, was that someone else? (see the problem?)

[Gjest]

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

No, you've missed my point. Over the years, that "handle" has been used
mostly _by_ trolls, which is why I pointed it out, and why I said it's
refreshing to see that you're a counterexample.

OK... I apologize. I did misunderstand your message
then

I pay spamcop.net 20 or 30 bucks a year, and they block 98-99% of my
incoming spam.

Hmm.... I will check the above out. Price is right for
sure. Thanks I will research it some.

You have confused me raising your awareness, with me taking issue with
it.

Sorry abt that. Again I apologize.

I appreciate your help and EVERYONES help with all my
questions. I've learned a TON here abt where to start
and how to start. Greta group of people here!!

Me and my sister are getting up early and driving abt
an hr away to my Moms home town. We are taking digital
cameras and going on a documentation mission up there.
Going to photography here old high school... house she
was born in.... etc. This is a VERY small town in
rural southern Iowa that is just abt dead now.

Anyway...... I will very son start generating this
genealogy info. And I'm much better prepared on where
and how start after having talked to all you people
here. Thanks!

[Dave Hinz]

On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 10:14:41 -0500, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

No, you've missed my point. Over the years, that "handle" has been used
mostly _by_ trolls, which is why I pointed it out, and why I said it's
refreshing to see that you're a counterexample.

OK... I apologize. I did misunderstand your message
then

No harm, no foul.

I pay spamcop.net 20 or 30 bucks a year, and they block 98-99% of my
incoming spam.

Hmm.... I will check the above out. Price is right for
sure. Thanks I will research it some.

That's .net, not .com, which is an entirely different outfit with, let's
just say, an entirely different reputation.

I appreciate your help and EVERYONES help with all my
questions. I've learned a TON here abt where to start
and how to start. Greta group of people here!!

Yup.

Me and my sister are getting up early and driving abt
an hr away to my Moms home town. We are taking digital
cameras and going on a documentation mission up there.
Going to photography here old high school... house she
was born in.... etc. This is a VERY small town in
rural southern Iowa that is just abt dead now.

Neat. If you have a GPS, take down some coordinates while you're at it.

Anyway...... I will very son start generating this
genealogy info. And I'm much better prepared on where
and how start after having talked to all you people
here. Thanks!

Don't be a stranger, but you might have to remind us which "me" you are
from time to time...

[Gjest]

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

Neat. If you have a GPS, take down some coordinates while you're at it.

Wow!!

I never even THOUGHT of doing that!!

I don't have a GPS yet.... but now I have a reason to
get one. Ha!!

I've actually wanted one for a awhile now anyway

In what form would I take "co=ordinates" tho? I can
borrow a friends GPS for this weekend. But how would I
save the co-ordinates in a form that useful on my
computer?

Are these simple lat and longitude co-ordinates? Or
something else you talk abt?

That's a GREAT idea!

[Gjest]

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

Don't be a stranger, but you might have to remind us which "me" you are
from time to time...

I will start using my sig line
John

[Dave Hinz]

On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 13:46:55 -0500, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

Neat. If you have a GPS, take down some coordinates while you're at it.

Wow!! > > I never even THOUGHT of doing that!!

I don't have a GPS yet.... but now I have a reason to > get one. Ha!!

Any excuse to buy toys, y'now?

In what form would I take "co=ordinates" tho? I can
borrow a friends GPS for this weekend. But how would I
save the co-ordinates in a form that useful on my
computer?

Are these simple lat and longitude co-ordinates? Or
something else you talk abt?

Yup, lat/long to as precise as you can get it - usuually better than 20
feet.

[Ron Parsons]

In article <[email protected]>,
Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

I pay spamcop.net 20 or 30 bucks a year, and they block 98-99% of my
incoming spam. I ignore entire continents by blacklist, and spamcop
lets me use as many of the realtime blackhole lists that I want to.
Very effective, great interface options, and it lets me use my real
email address without worrying about how much crap shows up in the
"held mail" folder. I used to check it to make sure nothing legitimate
got in there, but in probably 100 times checking for real mail, I never
found any. I don't check anymore.

I used SpamFire for a while but I routinely had to go rescue stuff that
it had marked as spam. When I upgraded to Tiger, I just let Mail handle
it and set the Junk mailbox to delete after 30 days. I use my real email
address and always have. At any given time, the Junk mailbox has 80 to
100 messages in it and it's very simple to recover legitimate mail.

[Ron Parsons]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
wrote:

Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

Neat. If you have a GPS, take down some coordinates while you're at it.

Wow!!

I never even THOUGHT of doing that!!

I don't have a GPS yet.... but now I have a reason to
get one. Ha!!

I've actually wanted one for a awhile now anyway

In what form would I take "co=ordinates" tho? I can
borrow a friends GPS for this weekend. But how would I
save the co-ordinates in a form that useful on my
computer?

Are these simple lat and longitude co-ordinates? Or
something else you talk abt?

That's a GREAT idea!

GPS units usually allow you to mark a new waypoint and give it a name.
While you get some benefit by marking individual gravestones, so far,
I've just marked and named the entrance to a number of rural cemeteries.

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 13:07:58 GMT, Ron Parsons <[email protected]> declaimed
the following in soc.genealogy.computing:

GPS units usually allow you to mark a new waypoint and give it a name.
While you get some benefit by marking individual gravestones, so far,
I've just marked and named the entrance to a number of rural cemeteries.

Considering that, even with Selective Availability turned off,
consumer GPS units still have error circles of 10-30 feet, relying upon
a single data point for a grave itself is probably not that useful.
Identifying a obvious landmark (the entrance gate, for example), and
then reporting grave sites in relative units is probably the most
effective.

The error circle tends to be consistent for measurements made
relatively close together (time wise) -- it is based on the geometry of
the four satellites being used for the fix. Most GPS units can be set to
give coordinates in UTM, where coordinates are meters... Subtracting the
UTM coordinate of the landmark (gate) from the UTM of a grave site gives
you a notation of "n-meters North, m-meters East, of gate center". You
would use a full notation to identify where the gate center really is --
then, if someone comes in later, when the error circle might have
shifted the other way, the "full coordinates" get them within site of
the landmark, then they can go to the landmark, get their updated
reading, and measure relative to it (say the real coordinates were on
the north end of your 30foot circle, and on the south end of their
30foot circle -- that's a 60foot difference! Could be approaching 10
graves tightly packed head to toe if all you gave was a lat/long or UTM
for the grave).

You also want to specify the datum used -- any given real
location will have different lat/long (UTM) depending upon the datum
selected. Most USGS maps are still on NAD27 (North American Datum of
1927), but native mode for GPS is WGS84 (World Geodetic Survey of 1984).
Consumer units typically have lots of datums available, so if using a
map, one can specify a compatible datum; recorded waypoints will be
converted.

Of course, if you really want to get accuracy, you'd hope to be
in range of a differential GPS transmitter, and connect your GPS unit to
a differential GPS receiver. The transmitters are at surveyed locations,
continuously getting satellite fixes, comparing the fix against the
surveyed "true", and transmitting correction factors to the nearby area.

And then, if a few years, the Navstar system is supposed to add
a few more frequencies (current consumer gear uses only the L1
coarse/acquisition signal; mil-spec uses the encrypted precise signal on
both L1 and L2). Having multiple frequencies will let the GPS receiver
apply corrections for atmospheric delays in the signals.

--

==============================================================
[email protected] | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
[email protected] | Bestiaria Support Staff
==============================================================
Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/
Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

[Gjest]

Ron Parsons <[email protected]> wrote:

While you get some benefit by marking individual gravestones, so far,
I've just marked and named the entrance to a number of rural cemeteries.

Mind if I ask why?

Why not walk right up to the grave stone and mark it?

[Ron Parsons]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
wrote:

Ron Parsons <[email protected]> wrote:

While you get some benefit by marking individual gravestones, so far,
I've just marked and named the entrance to a number of rural cemeteries.

Mind if I ask why?

Why not walk right up to the grave stone and mark it?

On the best of days, my unit has an accuracy of 14 ft. In an overgrown
rural cemetery, that might get you to the plot again, but not the actual
grave.

As was suggested earlier, recording an actual distance and direction
from the main entrance would be better. However, an entrance gate can be
moved for a number of reasons.

Laptop computers are not the easiest thing to read in bright sunlight,
nor are the latest color screen cell phones. Most GPS units send a
continuous stream of location data via serial port. We should all lobby
our various software providers to update their programs so that single
F key would parse that data and enter date, time and location data at
the point of our cursor. Failing that... perhaps a script to do so.

[Dave Hinz]

On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 18:34:13 GMT, Dennis Lee Bieber <[email protected]> wrote:

Considering that, even with Selective Availability turned off,
consumer GPS units still have error circles of 10-30 feet, relying upon
a single data point for a grave itself is probably not that useful.
Identifying a obvious landmark (the entrance gate, for example), and
then reporting grave sites in relative units is probably the most
effective.

I've been looking for a tall unusual stone to use as a reference, in
addition to the GPS of the stone I'm locating. So, "Headstone is at
(lat) (long), and is 2 rows north of, and 5 stones to the west of, the
tall white spire with the eagle on the top" type of descriptions.

And then, if a few years, the Navstar system is supposed to add
a few more frequencies (current consumer gear uses only the L1
coarse/acquisition signal; mil-spec uses the encrypted precise signal on
both L1 and L2). Having multiple frequencies will let the GPS receiver
apply corrections for atmospheric delays in the signals.

Oh, it'll keep getting better. Remember when Loran was as good as it
got?

Dave Hinz

[whowell]

[email protected] wrote:

Can someone play devils advocate and tell me why I
would want to use computer software for genealogy
purposes?

My question is why would you *want* to use paper?

Wayne Howell
Gensearch

[[email protected]]

whowell wrote:

[email protected] wrote:
Can someone play devils advocate and tell me why I
would want to use computer software for genealogy
purposes?

My question is why would you *want* to use paper?

Wayne Howell
Gensearch

*My* question is why would you reply to a post almost a year old?? !!!

--
The Verminator

[whowell]

[email protected] wrote:

whowell wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Can someone play devils advocate and tell me why I
would want to use computer software for genealogy
purposes?
My question is why would you *want* to use paper?

Wayne Howell
Gensearch

*My* question is why would you reply to a post almost a year old?? !!!

--
The Verminator

Uh..... stupidity on my part?

I had resorted my file to alpha by subject, and did not resort. I did a
d/l and the message that caught my eye was within a couple of messages
of this one, and, without remembering that I was in alpha sort, I posted
my infamous 'question'.

Wayne Howell
Gensearch

[[email protected]]

whowell wrote:

[email protected] wrote:
whowell wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Can someone play devils advocate and tell me why I
would want to use computer software for genealogy
purposes?
My question is why would you *want* to use paper?

Wayne Howell
Gensearch

*My* question is why would you reply to a post almost a year old?? !!!

--
The Verminator

Uh..... stupidity on my part?

I had resorted my file to alpha by subject, and did not resort. I did a
d/l and the message that caught my eye was within a couple of messages
of this one, and, without remembering that I was in alpha sort, I posted
my infamous 'question'.

Wayne Howell
Gensearch

Ok- that is a valid reason.



--
The Verminator

[Steve Hayes]

On 2 Aug 2006 14:13:17 -0700, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

whowell wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Can someone play devils advocate and tell me why I
would want to use computer software for genealogy
purposes?

My question is why would you *want* to use paper?

Wayne Howell
Gensearch

*My* question is why would you reply to a post almost a year old?? !!!

Because there are some perennial questions that keep getting asked.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk