farm information

[gj11124]

hi
I was wondering if anybody had any information on some farms ,as to who owned them and when they were sold they are in the SANDSVÆR and Kongsberg area The farms names are

LILLEMOEN
RISTVEDT
SAGGRENDA



OLE VIDAR NILSEN

[gj09303]

Hi

There are "bygdebøker" from Sandsvær in 7 volumes (I think) called Sandsværs historie.
About the farm Ristvedt there are more than 30 pages in volume 6.

Vivi

[gj11124]

does anyone have these books as I have not as I am in Australia

ole vidar nilsen

[gj09303]

Hi

Several of them are on-line for users only in Norway (with Norwegian PC)

Who are the persons you are looking for?

Vivi

[gj11124]

hi vivi

in Saggrenda a TORKEL WEBRANDSØN

in ristvedt a Ole Olsen and Barbara Paulsdatter


and their son a ole olsen in lillemoen WHO HAD A SON
named paul who married torkels daughter

somebody sent me the information on brua which is also tied to this family as well as SAGA and it was very helpful in the information that it gave but as I am in Australia I cannot access these pages

thank you

OLE VIDAR NILSEN

[gj09303]

Hi

I find a bit about Ole Olssøn in vol. 7.
I have tried to translate it:

"Ole Olssøn Saga born 1763 died 1817. Supposed to have died in Kristiania Tukthus. Illegitimate son of miner Ole Olssøn Ristvedt and Barbara Paulsdatter Mørkeie. Half-brother Sjul Olssøn, shoemaker who in 1817 lived in the house of Johan Myhre.
Ole Saga was already working at the age of 6. In 1805 he became "overslemmer" at Gabe Gottes aggregate quarry in Saggrenda near Brua. Married 1784 to Karen Olsdatter Winger born 1758 and died 1794. She was from Kongsberg and daughter of Ole Christophersen Winger (died 1763) and Anne Margrete Martiniusdatter (born 1721 died 1770).
Children: Ole b 1786 died very young, Lars b 1791 died very young, Ole b 1792 d 1793, Paul twin b 1794, Grete Karine twin b 1794 was after their mothers death raised by Tollef Iversøn in Kongsberg.
Ole remarried 1796 with Barbara Marie Kristensdatter Lillemoen, born 1777 and died 1851.
Children: Kristen b 1797, Ole b 1799 d 1801, Barbara Karine b 1801 d 1802, Ole b 1804 d 1806, Hans b 1811, Barbara Karine b about 1807 d 1872 at Bratt, married 1834 with Lars Larssøn Saga (b ab 1807 d 1868 at Ljøterudåsen, miner, "innerster" at Lillemoen. Children: Lars b 1835, Ole b 1838, Karen Maria b 1842, Berte Katrine b 1845, Martine b 1848.
The exchange of inheritance after Ole was held at Lillemoen. In addition to Lillemoen he owned Brua and a summer pasture at Korbu summer farm. Only the houses at Lillemoen was inhabitable. Brua and the summer pasture was sold at an auction. After Barbara's death Lillemoen was sold at an auction in 1852."

I'm not sure what an "overslemmer" do, but I would think he worked at the silverworks in Saggrenda probably with crushing of ore.

Vivi

[gj11124]

HI VIVI AND THANKS

IS THERE ANY INFORMATION ON Ole Olssøn Ristvedt and Barbara Paulsdatter Mørkei as they are my target at the moment I do have some of the info on ole olsen saga but I never knew about ole ristvedt being a miner or that ole olsen saga had a half brother and or that he was Illegitimate or he was working at age six I knew he died in Kristiania Tukthus but why he was there no idea .My line is with ole sagas son paul who married inger torkilsdatter bommen and I have information on that but in my previous post I enquired about Saggrenda and that is where ingers dad was from and if ole saga had a half brother then was sjuls mother not Barbara Paulsdatter

[gj09303]

Hi

Your two pdf are from the book I mentioned "Sandsværs historie" and the pdf about Lillemoen contains the passage about Ole Olsen Saga I tried to translate.
How much Norwegian do you read/understand?

I (and others) have earlier answered a query about Ole Olsen Saga where also his death at Kristiania Tukthus is attached. https://slektsforum.slektogdata.no/view ... p?t=100160
More about the same person: https://slektsforum.slektogdata.no/view ... p?p=566324

Vivi

[gj09303]

Hi

I am looking a bit around to find more information about Ole Olssøn Saga and found a document about the exchange of his inheritence.
It might be a document you want to have even though it is difficult to read.

It is dated Nov. 29, 1817 and on top of the next page they write Ole died in Christiania about 5 to 6 weeks ago. They are at the cotters place Lille-moen in Sauggrenen under the farm Landsverk in Hedenstad sub-parish in Sandsværd parish.

Bottom of the right page and next page:
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/25516/679/
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 351185.jpg

Vivi

[gj11124]

HI VIVI
MY NORWEGIAN IS NOT THE BEST AS I LEFT NORWAY AS A 9 YEAR OLD AND AS I KEEP IN CONTACT WITH UNCLES BACK IN NORWAY I HAVE TRIED TO RE-LEARN MY NORWEGIAN AND PICK UP SOME WORDS
THE PROBLEM I HAVE IS THAT ALL THE INFORMATION IS IN NORWAY AND THE ONLY WAY TO FIND OUT THINGS IS THROUGH THE ARCHIVES AND THROUGH THE GENEROSITY OF PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF SO I AM EVER GRATEFUL FOR ANY PERSONS HELP

THE LINE IS MY DADS MUMS SIDE AND INTERESTS ME BUT AS I GET FURTHER BACK AND THE NAMES BECOME SIMILAR ALL I CAN GO BY IS THE FARM NAMES AND THROUGH THESE PAGES I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FOLLOW BUT I HAVE LIMITED AVENUES

I WILL KEEP LOOKING TO FIND THE REASON OLE SAGA ENDED UP IN JAIL BUT HIS DAD IS WHERE I CANT GO ANY FURTHER AS I HAVE TROUBLE READING THE HAND WRITING OF THE ARCHIVE PAGES AND GOOGLE TRANSLATE OR OTHER TRANSLATION SITES BDONT GIVE ME A CORRECT MEANING

SO ANY INFORMATION THAT YOU OR OTHERS MAY FIND IS HELPING AN AWFUL LOT AND I APPRECIATE ALL THE ASSISTANCE I GET



OLE VIDAR NILSEN

[gj09303]

Hi

Your ancestor Paul is mentioned in the probate on the following page first among the heirs.
I'm struggeling with the handwriting but here is what I think is written - translated:
a) In first marriage with ? late wife? Kari Olsdatter Winger ? child 1) the son Paul Olssøn 23 years old living at home with his step-mother
(If someone reads it different please correct me.)
Seems like Paul was the only surviving child from first marriage.

Vivi

[gj11124]

HI VIVI

SO I HAVE FOUND A OLE OLSEN BRUEN DEATH IN 1794 6 JANUARY BUT I DONT KNOW IF IT MEANS ANYTHING FOR WHICH OLE OLSEN IS IT IS IT OLE OLSEN RISTVEDT AT BRUEN OR ON OF OLE SAGAS CHILDREN OR NOBODY AT ALL I THINK HE IS 64 YEARS OF AGE IF I READ IT CORRECTLY

THERE IS ALSO A OLE OLSEN SAGEN BUT THAT COULD BE A DIFFERENT FARM

OLE OLSEN BRUEN
HALF WAY DOWN 2ND COLUMN

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 650662.jpg

[gj09303]

Hi

I'm reading a bit here and there in the books "Sandsværs historie" and there it is written that Ole Olssøn Saga bought the farm Brua (can also be spelled Bruen) in 1788.

The Ole Olssøn Bruen you found dead in 1794 was in the Sandsvær sub-parish Efteløt while your Ole Olssøn lived on the farm Brua in the Sandsvær sub-parish Hedenstad.
Ole Olssøn/Olsen is a VERY common name and there is no particular reason to think he is Ole Olssøn Ristvedt the father of Ole Olssøn Saga without more information.

I tried to find the probate after Ole Olssøn Bruen dead 1794, but so far with no luck. Even if I found it, it is not sure Ole Olssøn Saga would be mentioned because an illegitimate child got no inheritance from his father.

In the pdf about Brua you got in another query, there is written about Ole Olssøn Saga's son Paul and his family. Have you had that translated?
In "Sandsværs historie" I find information about Paul's son Torkel born 1822 and even a photo of him with his wife and two children. And a photo of Torkel's son Halvor as grown up.

Vivi

[Bjørg Lunde]

About Barbara Paulsdatter Mørkeie from the "Sandsværs historie VII" page 42 (farm: Torsrud under Mørk), 28 (farm: Mørk Mellom), 19 (farm: Mørk Søndre) and 153 (farm: Gislerud under Landsverk)

Barbara was born 1734 and died 1777. Son Ole born 1763 with father Ole Olsen Ristvedt. She married Gulbrand Kristoffersen, a mine worker from the farm Gislerud where they later lived. Children: Paul 1768, Hans Kristoffer 1770-1773, Kristoffer 1774-1778.

Parents of Barbara Paulsd. were Paul Tovsen Mørkeie about 1702-1768 and Barbara Hansd. ?-1740. Children: Ole 1727, Ole 1728-1740, Kari 1731-1774, Barbara 1734-1777, Ellen abt 1736-1748, Ingeborg abt 1737, Anne 1739-1739, Tov 1739-1783. The last two were twins.

Parents of Barbara Hansd. were Hans Andersen Rud, abt. 1680-1730 and Karen Paulsd. 1679-1721, farmers on Mørk Mellom.

Parents of Karen Hansd. were Paul Andersen Schiøller ?-1723 and Barbara Hansd. 1641-1712. Barbara was first married to Antonius Nolt.

And Parents of Barbara Hansd. were Hans Andersen Schrøder abt. 1610-1675 and Anne Olsd. Hans bought the farm Søndre Mørk about 1637.

----

Ole Vidar, Google Translater may help you to understand Norwegian. The translater is nowere near perfect, but it is a help
https://translate.google.no/?hl=no&tab=wT

mvh Bjørg

[Bjørg Lunde]

About the before mentioned half brother called Sjul Olsen:
Since Barbara married a man called Gulbrand this Sjul is probably som of Ole Olsen Ristvedt. I have tried to find him in the registers but have had no luck so far. Maybe he was born in Kongsberg ....

mvh Bjørg

[gj09303]

Hi

Sjul (spelled Skul) Olsen Saga had a son named Ole born Feb 22, 1819. The childs mother was Inger Torkildsdatter.

No 47:
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-25
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 010176.jpg

They are mentioned in Sandsværs historie vol 7 under Graverplassen.

Vivi

[gj09303]

Hi

Sjul (now spelled Siul) and Inger was married Des 26, 1818.
Unfortunately we are not given the names of their parents; only the witnesses.

No 1 right page:
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-210
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 010361.jpg

Vivi

[Bjørg Lunde]

Far og ektemann leser jeg som Poul Olsen , ikke Siul.

[gj11124]

hi vivi

I have worked through those pages to the best of my ability finding out all I can but you say there is a picture of TORKEL PAULSØN BOMMEN I am very interested in that but with ole olsen ristvedt has got me stumped and as you say there are many ole Olsen's and as they moved from farm to farm eg ole olsen brua -ole olsen saga ' also I have found a ole olsen saga which died 1869 and that could be a son

and Bjørg you are correct Paul married inger 26 Dec 1818father torjild webranson and Anne serene olsdatter


ole vidar nilsen

[gj09303]

Hei

Her er linken til Sandsværs historie som viser at Sjul Olssøn Saga var gift med Inger Torkildsdatter og fikk en sønn, Ole i 1819.
http://www.nb.no/nbsok/nb/0bf5d0117ca7d ... ndex=2#101

Graverplassen står omtalt i forbindelse med Landsverk slik som Lillemoen gjør.
Er det bare ønsketenkning som gjør at jeg leser Sjul? (Jeg synes denne skriften er vanskelig å tyde.)

Vivi

[gj09303]

Hi

Finally I found out - with good help - how to make a pdf.

Here is the information from Sandsværs historie about Sjul Olssøn Saga beeing married to Inger Torkildsdatter and having a son Ole born 1819.

Last line.

Vivi

[gj09303]

Hi

Here is the first part from "Sandsværs historie" about Torkel Paulsøn. He used farmnames first Saga, then Bommen and later Kongsgården.

Here is my translation. The words in "" are their occupation in norwegian:
Torkel Paulsøn Saga/Bommen born 1822 died 1888. Started working at the Silverworks in 1836. Worked many years as "bor- and sjakthauer", retired 1887 as "berghallvarter". Named Bommen 1859. Married 1853 to Berte Marie Halvorsdatter Heia, b 1825 d 1906. (Lia u. Saggrenda).
They used the name Kongsgården. Children: (Helvine Marie Torkelsdtr Kongsgården b ab 1849 d 1851). Paul b 1854 d 1916 worked at the Silverworks from 1870-1912, "sjaktarbeider" in Samuels mine, married to Lina Johansen (b 1858 d 1937), Halvor b 1855 d 1910, started at the Silverworks at the age of 18, was a "sjaktarbeider" for many years in Kongens gruve where he perished, married to Karoline Marie Olsen (d 1909), Inger Marie b 1856 d 1857, Inger Marie b 1859 d 1907, married to Ole H. Moen see Saggrenda, stillborn boy 1858, Johannes b 1860 d 1947, "snekkerformann" at the Silverworks, married to Margrethe Nilssen ( 1860-1940), Berte Sofie b 1863 d 1935, married to Jon J. Heden-
(more next page)
Text below the photo:
Silverworksworker Torkel P. Kongsgården with wife Berte Maria and the sons Halvor (left) and Paul

Vivi

[gj11124]

hi vivi

the link does not show anything but the download of pdf worked and I cannot understand this with sjul as in the brua farm pdf it says that Paul married inger torkildsdatter so it must be a misprint and I have looked for a sjul Olsen saga but cannot find one

the pictures of pauls sons are you able to send them to me

ole vidar nilsen

[gj11124]

thank you vivi you are awesome it was so nice to see actual photos of a relative so long ago thank you thank you I am in your debt

[gj09303]

Hi

Here is a photo of Torkel's son Halvor in some kind of uniform.

I'll translate the text later.

Vivi

[gj09303]

Hi

Here is a photo of Torkel's farm house as I understand it. Torkel's son Olaus is on the balcony.

And here is a photo of some farms in Hedenstad, Sandsvær; close to where Torkel Paulsen lived.

Which one of Torkel's children are your ancestor?


Vivi

[gj11124]

HI VIVI
Paul had a son named Anders and Anders had a son named olaf who married ingeborg helgesen and they had a daughter ester otillie who was grandmother dad side

but having a look at the photos I can picture what my ancestors looked like

OLE VIDAR NILSEN

[gj09303]

Hi

On the pdf you find first a copy of what Sandsværs historie writes about Paul and then my ranslation.

Vivi

[gj09303]

Hi

On the pdf you first have what Sandsværs historie writes about Anders Paulsøn Bommen and then my translation.

Vivi

[gj09303]

Hi

Here is what the book Sandsværs historie writes about Olaf Andersøn Bommen and my translation, BUT no Ester Otillie is mentioned.
Is this the correct family?

Vivi

[gj09303]

Hi

I found the family in the 1910 census.
Seems like the book Sandsværs historie doesn't mention all the children.
Both Solveig and Ester are not in the book, but in the 1910 census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft ... 6479001610

I guess this is a good reminder that a bygdebok is only a secondary source and must be controlled againt a primary source (the church books).

Vivi

[gj09303]

Hi

Some clip from the book Sandsværs historie.

Vivi

[gj09303]

Hi

Here is something about another grandson of Paul Olsøn Saga.
And a photo of his farm close to Hedenstad church.

Vivi

[gj11124]

hi vivi \

yes it is hot here all the information is great, I especially love the photos, I do have a photo of olaf and ingeborg bommen and this whole line of the bommens started with ole olsen ristvedt which I know nothing about you are very gracious to give up your time to help me and if I can help you in anyway I have found out that most of the bommens were Methodist and olaf died of pneumonia 1918


ole vidar nilsen

[gj09303]

Hi

Nice photo!

Do you have the baptizm of Ole Olssøn Saga?
Here it is in first column:
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-216
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 650458.jpg

Vivi

[gj11124]

IT SAYS HE WAS BORN OUT OF WEDLOCK SO OLE RISTVEDT AND BARBARA PAULSDATTER ARE NOT MARRIED YET SO I SUPPOSE TO FIND OUT MORE ON OLE RISTVEDT WE NEED TO FIND MORE CHILDREN AND MARRIAGE

OLE VIDAR NILSEN

[gj09303]

Hi

Ole Olssøn Ristvedt and Barbara Paulsdatter never married.
Barbara married Gulbrand Kristoffersen and had more children with him.

Sjul is most likely the son of Ole Olssøn Ristvedt, but we have no idea when or where he was born/baptized. I don't find him in the 1801 census.

Vivi

[gj11124]

so would ole ristvedt have moved and thus changed his farm name and sjul he may have written his name either sjul or siul so if we find him we find ole does the book say anything about ole ristdedt or sjul

ole vidar nilsen

[gj09303]

Hi

Correct.
Ole Olssøn Ristvedt is most likely born 1744 or earlier; probably around 1730. (Barbara was born 1734 according to Sandsværs historie)
He might have been born anywhere in Norway and his name would have been Ole Olssøn and the name of the farm he was living on at the moment. Then he probably moved to one of the Ristvedt farms or subfarms and started using Ristvedt as farm-name. He might also have been born on a Ristvedt farm, but Sandsværs historie writes that he is not mentioned under Ristvedt in the book.

It doesn't look like Sjul (Siul, Sjuel, Siuel) is born in Sandsvær. At least I have looked for him and not found him.
Ole Olssøn Ristvedt was a miner according to Sandsværs historie so he most likely worked at Kongsberg Sølvverk (Silverworks) so he might have moved to Kongsberg or somewhere close.

There is a census dated 1765 from Sandsvær. It is not on-line (as far as I know), but I know someone who know someone who has a copy - so I have asked for a "look up". Ole Saga was born late 1763 so his father might still live at Ristvedt. Unfortunately I don't think this census have much information about each person.

Ole Saga is in a listing of persons who were fired when the Silverworks closed 1805. He got a pension for 5 years (I think they all did), he was married and had 3 children to provid for and owned a small farm. When he lost his job he was working as "rendemand at Øvre Gabels gottes Pukværk". I don't know what a "rendemand" did, sorry, but pukværk (or pukkverk in modern spelling is aggregate quarry according to Google translate.

Vivi

[Bjørg Lunde]

Here is the note about Barbara's "offentlig skriftemål" (public confession??):

Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-499

Here Ole Olsen Ristvedt is said to be a soldier.

[gj11124]

you are correct vivi and him being a soldier he could have been born anywhere and with a name like ole olsen will be hard to find he would have been around mork farm around 1761 as that is where Barbara was but looking for sjul ,suil will be telling

ole vidar nilsen

[gj11124]

hei

vivi says that siul or sjul olsen was ole olsen saga half brother and that he was living with johan myhre in 1817 if that is the case then would that tell you where siul or sjul olsen was born or how old he was in 1817

ole vidar nilsen

[gj09303]

Hi

The half-brother of Ole Saga; Sjul/Siul Olsen is mentioned in Sandsværs historie (no more information than his name) and Sjul/Siul Olsen is also mentioned in the probate after Ole Saga.
For those of you who are able to read this handwriting he is mentioned about in the middle of the right page. I understand it the way that Sjul/Siul Olsen is a shoemaker and living in the house of Johan Myhra. This was written 1817.

Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/25516/680/
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 351186.jpg

Vivi

[gj11124]

hi vivi
just had a look and I see that suil is mentiond in one and and there is a mention of a paul olsen and ole olsen saga but I am wondering if suil should be paul I am not sure as it speaks about ole olsen saga about the time he died in prison and I am wondering if it is a handover of title to say paul -ole olsen saga son it is hard to read and I hope somebody can help to translate it

ole vidar nilsen

[gj09303]

Hi

Paul Olsen is mentioned earlier at the page after the letter a). Paul is living at home with his step-mother, according to the probate.

About Siul I read..."anmelder Enken at en Siul Olsen skomager inderst hos Johan Myhra er afdødes halvbroder og ...
(The widow tells that a Siul Olsen shoemaker living in the house of Johan Myhra is the half-brother of the deseased and...) the rest is about other relatives as far as I can read.

Vivi

[gj09303]

Hi

It seems like it is very difficult to find out who Ole Olssøn Ristvedt was.
A local researcher has not managed to find out.
Sorry.
Fingers crossed in hope that the 1765 census from Sandsvær might give an answeer!

Vivi

[Bjørg Lunde]

When Ole Olsen Saga and Barbro Christensd. bapt. their son Hans in 1811 one of the vitneses was Siul Olsen Tofstad (no2 right side):

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-13

This might be the half brother.

Have you checked the vitnesses for the rest of the children?

mvh Bjørg

[gj09303]

Hi

No, I have not checked the witnessess.

The Siul Olsen Tofstad might be this one in the 1801 census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft ... 8279003615

Not a shoemaker here, but might have become one later.

Vivi

[Bjørg Lunde]

Looks like there was an Ole Olsen at Tofstad in 1781. See the twins half way down on the right page:

Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-293

But this does not have to be the father of the Siul Olsen Tofstad you found in 1801.

- Bjørg

[gj09303]

Hi

I found a Siul baptized 1782, but I'm not able to read his father's name or farm.
Anyone else able to read it?: About half way down left page.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-298
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 650540.jpg

Vivi

[Bjørg Lunde]

Hi

I found a Siul baptized 1782, but I'm not able to read his father's name or farm.
Anyone else able to read it?: About half way down left page.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-298
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 650540.jpg

Vivi

The fathers name is Tosten Olss. Medalen.

(Remember that Siul can also be written Sivert, Syvert, Sigurd, Sjur etc.)

- Bjørg

[gj11124]

I have had a look at some of the kids born to both of ole olsen saga wives and I don't see suil mentioned except for hans his last but come across farm names of olsrud and blarud


ole vidar nilsen

[gj09303]

Hi

I'm still struggling with this handwriting

I read that a Sjuel Olsen 17 years old are confirmated in Sandsvær 1798. He is, I think, tjener (servant) so he fits well with the 19 years old Sjur at Tofstad in the 1801 census.
He should be born around 1780/1781, but I don't find him. His birthplace is mentioned, but I am not able to read it. Looks like Gunn????

Right page:
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-528
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 650770.jpg

Vivi

[3567]

The name of the farm is Gunnes, with variant spellings from Rygh, "Norske Gaardnavne":

Gunnes. Udt. gu2nnes. -- Gunnænæs, Gunnæs DN. V 104, 1338 Gunnunes RB. 3. 4. Gunnænæs RB. 4 s. [a Gunnenesze DN.
XVI 18, 1352 Gunnæs DN. XVI 31, 1375(falskt)]. Ghunnenes DN.
III 764, 1513 Gundenis 1593. [Gunnæs JN. 412]. Gundenes 1604.
1/1. Gundnes 1667

http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/navnegran ... 4022359=on

[gj11124]

found two sjuil olsens death one is almost 39 in 1849 and the other 70 in 1850 so 1 is born about 1811 and the other 1780 unsure if the farm names fit but

ole vidar nilsen

[gj09303]

Hi

Sjul/Siul Olsen was a shoemaker in 1817. This means that the Sjul who died 1849 is too young.
I'm not able to read the occupation of Sjul who died 1850, but it doesn't look like skomager.

There are several Sjul/Siul Olsen born in Flesberg. And remember what Bjørg wrote: we must also consider "spellings" like Sivert, Syvert, Sigurd, Sjur etc.

If soldier Ole Olsen Ristvedt had more children they would most likely have been born in the timeperiod about 20 years before 1763 and 20 years after (ab. 1740-1785), but since we do not know his age this is only an assumption.

Vivi

[gj11124]

I look very 2 years befor and after 1763 when ole saga was born but no luck and as Bjørg also wrote he was a soldier which means he could have come from anywhere spent some time in Sandsvaer and then left a pregnant women and had children elsewhere or died in battle and had no more kids the paul you mention or the sjuil ,sivert ( I have looked in the Sandsvaer born in 1743 to -- in the archive census pages shows nothing) is the answer to finding him or the 1765 census from your friend


ole vidar nilsen

[Bjørg Lunde]

I believe the Sjul Olss. who lived on Tofstad Nedre in 1801 is the half-brother because:

- Sjul Olsen Tofstad was a witness for Ole's child in 1811
- Ole Olsen Sagen and Poul Olsen Sagen were witnesses for Sjul Olsen's child in 1810:
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-94

Ole Olsen Tofstad and Gunnild Marie Erichsd. married 26.05.1807:
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-76

Gunnild Marie Erichsd. died in Kongsberg 13.05.1815:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/kb ... 0001183044

A note in the book tells us they came to Kongsberg 2 years earlier.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-182

Besides the son Ole in 1810 I have found Marie born in 1807, baptised at home and dead before she was taken to church.

It is probably the same Sjul that married Ingeborg Carine Ingebrethsd. (Engebrethsd.) Braaten 06.10.1816:
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-122

They had several children, the first one called Grete Karine, which is a name that Ole Olsen Saga also used.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-120

Sjul Olsen was 19 years in march 1801 (meaning he had started his 19th year) - then he should be born 1782. That matches the age 17 (started his 17th year) in the fall 1798. There is a Siver Olsen bapt. 28.07.1782 - father Ole Olsen Hostved-eje (no 4 right side):
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-298

Hostved-eje is not far from Gunnes.

So where does this bring us? I don't know, but we should probably look for more children and a wedding

- Bjørg

[gj09303]

Hi

Do you find a mother for the Syver born 1782?

There is a "soldat Ole Olsen Sa??? married to Ingeborg Marie Anundsdatter Hos??? on Aug 26, 1780.

Right page:
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-45
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 650284.jpg

Vivi

[Bjørg Lunde]

Ole Olsen Sending og Ingeborg Marie Anundsd. Hoff.

The Sandsværs historie V page 388 says Ole Olsen Sending was born 1753. So he's too young.

- Bjørg

[gj10822]

Ole Olsen Sending and Ingeborg Marie Anundsdt Hovseiet.

Ole Olsen Sending born 1753 died i 1786. Children: Ole 1781, Berthe Marie 1783 and Anund 1785.

[gj09303]

Hi

A Sjul Olsen - skomager dies Nov 21,1838. He is 56 years old = born ab 1782.
I can't read the farm name, but can read it is a place under Landsverk - same as Ole Olsen Saga.

No 3 but before 2:
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-313
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 660313.jpg


Vivi

[Bjørg Lunde]

Well done, Vivi

The farm name seems to be Graverplads, Landsverk-eie.

- Bjørg

[gj09303]

Hi

Then the half-brother must have been found! And a new clue to find out who Ole Olssen Ristved is.

It is written about Sjul in Sandsværs historie, but with wrong birthyear:
Link for those with norwegian computer:
http://www.nb.no/nbsok/nb/0bf5d0117ca7d ... ndex=0#101

Pdf for other computers.

Vivi

[gj11124]

it says sjul olsen saga married inger torkildsdatter which is also wrong as it was paul olsen saga who married inger torkildsdatter

ole vidar nilsen

[gj11124]

sjul olsen son peder born 1820 no witnesses

[gj09303]

Hi

There is no witnesses because Peder died before he was baptized in church.

Vivi

[gj11124]

but in your list on sjul olsen children there are two peder one born 1819 and one 1820

[gj11124]

ok my mistake that was the 1819 one

[gj11124]

2nd peder

[gj11124]

I may not be helping but saw this

[gj09303]

Hi

There are several men with the name Ole Olsen Ristvedt.
As you probably know, the same family used the same names for their children in different generations.
This man died at the age of 70 in 1848 = he was born about 1770.

I think Bjørg is correct about this Sjul beeing the half-brother of Ole Saga. I haven't found the name of his mother, but since the mother of Ole Saga, Barbara had died 1777 (according to Sandsværs historie), this must be a son of Ole Saga's father; Ole Olssen Ristvedt now by the name Ole Olssen Hostved-eje.
Hostved-eje means a sub-farm to Hostved (Hostvedt).

Vivi

[gj11124]

the biggest problem is there are so many ole olsen and the father mostly named the first born after themselves or the grandfather which kept the name going and I read once that they did this so they could pass the farm onto their children without changing the title names
so ole olsen hostved and sjul born 1782 and need name of mother to sjul to confirm ole olsen hostved is ole olsen ristvedt but I don't know if you told me already but where was ole saga after he was born did he stay with Barbara Paulsdatter or did he go to a home of a friend

you told me he started working at a very young age but he would not have been allowed to live by himself until at least age 10


ole vidar nilsen

[gj11124]

vivi


http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 351186.jpg

this is that probate that mentions sjul as a shoemaker but down the bottom of left page first column it mentions an ole olsen who is a soldier now I may be seeing things but lillemoen is mentioned and I think a mention of sjul but it is hard to read can you make it out and it mentions a date of 1788 and I went to that page in death notices and there is a ole olsen moen there 32 years of age

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 650657.jpg

I don't know but every avenue I try to cover

it would be good if somebody could read the probate and the mention of sjul as a shoemaker

[gj09303]

Hi

I'm not able to read much of this text, sorry.
I don't find mentioned a soldier Ole Olsen down the left column; only "afdøde Ole Olsen" (the deceased Ole Olsen). But this handwriting is a challenge to me.

If we are correct then Ole Olsen Ristvedt/Ole Olsen Hostved-eje probably must have died sometime between 1782 and 1801. His probate might give some answeers - if readable.

Vivi

[gj11124]

[ it mentions a date of 1788 and I went to that page in death notices and there is a ole olsen moen there 32 years of age

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 650657.jpg

I don't know but every avenue I try to cover

it would be good if somebody could read the probate and the mention of sjul as a shoemaker[/quote]

[gj09303]

Hi

I'm trying to find someone who can help me read some of the probate (it covers more than 3 pages).

The mentioning of Sjul is on the pdf

Vivi

[Bjørg Lunde]

Ole Vidar, what you try to read in the probate is only about the two farms LilleMoen and Brua, when Ole Olsen bought them, how much he paid and how much he had to pay to the main farm Landsverk each year.

The text in Norwegian:

Dette Stervboe tilhørende bestaaer(?) udav(?) 2de Pladser Lille Moen og Brua eller Skollenborg. Den første efter Skjøde dat. 8 May og tinglyst 6 Julii 1767 Sal Sterv BoeEnkens Fader Christen Christophersen for Summa 155r og den sidste Brua eller Skollenborg kaldet efter Skjøde til afdøde Ole Olsen af Dato 4 Juli of tinglyst 8 Julii 1788 for Summa 1500(?) r, begge under ?? Gaard Landsværk og ?? af ?? ?? i aarlig Grundleye til Hovedgaarden Landsværk ialt 2 r 16 Sp og 5 Arbejdsdager.

- Bjørg

[gj11124]

tussen takk Bjørg my Norwegian is not the best and reading it was a bit hard but this ole ristvedt character has had me stumped for over a year now and I feel I might be getting somewhere thanks to you and vivi especially

will keep looking and thanks again

[gj09303]

Hi

The 1762-1767 census is on-line. It is a tax-list of all persons above 12 years.

At Ristvedt, Mellem (middle) there is a Ole Olsen, but his name is unfortunately all the information given on this list.

Farm no 115; the name on the right page meaning he was only living at the farm and not owning it.
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:db_read/db/45796/102/
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 180105.jpg

There is also a Barbro living at the same farm. I'm not quite able to read her "surname" (Hansdatter?), but it does not look like Paulsdatter.

This "must" be the Ole Olssøn Ristvedt; father of Ole Olssøn Saga that we are looking for, but not much help here.

Vivi

[gj11124]

thanks vivi

I had a look and I also think this could be him and the barbro could be Paulsdatter as it looks like a p at the beginning and it could be paulsd; maybe if someone could help and tell us what they think and what is written after her name

ole vidar nilsen

[gj11124]

and so
if he is here in 1762 ole saga born 1763 and Barbara marries gulbrand 1767 is he still there in 1767 and so on or does he move and marry and sjul is born 1782 what happens next

[gj09303]

Hi

I have asked for help to read Barbro's surname.

I believe this Ole Olssen is Ole Olssen Ristvedt and the father of Ole Olssen Saga.

The Sjul Olsen; shoemaker who died 1838 must be the half-brother mentioned in the probate after Ole Olssen Saga. He was born ab. 1782 and fits well with the Syver born from father Ole Olssen Hostved. (Syver and Sjul are different variations of the same name)
Later this Syver/Sjul lived at the farm Tofstad and when he married, Ole Olssen Saga were among the witnesses. Also Sjul Olsen (with farm-name Tofstad) were among the witnesses (godparents) to Ole Olssen Saga's child in 1811.

So what I believe we know about the father of Ole Olsen Saga is not much.
He lived at Ristvedt around 1762-63.
He was a soldier in 1763.
He was old enough to have a child in 1763 with a woman born 1734. I don't think he was much younger than her so I would think he is born no later than 1735-1736.
He also had a child in 1782. I haven't found the name of the mother so I don't know her age, but anyway I would think the father was less than 65 years old.
From this background the most likely birth-period of our Ole Olssen Ristvedt/Hostved is somewhere between 1717 and 1742. (The most probable birth-year is 1730 +/- 5 to 7 years.)
Unfortunately this fits a lot of Ole Olssen's...

I have not found any probate in Sandsvær of a Ole Olssen I think might be correct.

Many people from Sandsvær moved to Kongsberg. I have not looked for him there.

Vivi

[gj09303]

Hi

I got help reading what the 1762 census said about Barbro and what was written below her name.
Here is the result:
There were actually two woman age over 12 on Ristvedt, Mellem:
Barbro Poulsd. and Kirsti Andersd.

Seems like Ole Olsen and Barbro Paulsdatter; the parents of Ole Olssen Saga lived at the same farm before his birth!

Vivi

[gj11124]

hei vivi

it looks like ole olsen ritvedt was also there when barbro died as I saw this


http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcen ... 16190#ovre

what do you think

ole vidar nilsen

[gj09303]

Hi

Ole Olsen Ristvedt was not living in Sandsvær when Barbro died.
His residence is Numedal which is a long valley from Kongsberg to Dagali. It also includes Flesberg where the name Sjul is used a lot.

Here is the original probate for those able to read. I'm going to ask for help to read what it say about Ole Olsen (Ristvedt).
Right page and next page:
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/25383/402/
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 370402.jpg

About Numedal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numedal

Vivi

[gj09303]

Hi

I got help reading what the probate tells about the heirs of Barbro.

Ole Olsen (Ristvedt) is mentioned because he is the fater of Barbro's oldest son.
Here is what is written about him:
1) Oldest son Ole Olsen she had illegitimate with a person Ole Olsen from Numedal. This son is 14 years old and lives at home with the widower.

So it looks like we have to search for Ole Olsen in Numedal.

Here is what some of the probate tells in Norwegian (not a word by word transcription) :
Over Barbro Poulsd,og igjenlevende mand Gulbrand Christophersen.
Anno Aar 1778 den 14,1 blev skiftetretten sat i sterboehuset efter afgangne Barbro Poulsd, som for 2 1/2 mnd siden ved døden afgik Skifte og deling imellem enkemanden Gulbrand Christophersen og den afdødes igjenlevende 2de kones børn,som er 2 sønner hvis ? blev anmeldt at være efterskrevne nemlig.
1)Ældste søn Ole Olsen som er avlet udenfor ægteskab med en person Ole Olsen fra Nummedal Bemeldte søn er 14 Aar gml. hiemelig hos enkemanden. 2) yngste søn Christopher Gulbrandsenn avlet udi egteskab med enkemanden 3 1/4 aar
Og det er øyensynlig at for Børnene i dette Boe er ingen arv at erholde da gjelden er saa stor at den anmeldte gjeld en betydelig del overstiger indtegten.

Vivi

[gj11124]

hi vivi

so municipalities of flesberg ,nore rollaq examples is that numedal and is there any other census around that time which can be looked at

ole vidar nilsen

[gj11124]

HI VIVI

I know it may be nothing but saw this as I was searching for some one

2nd item down right hand page

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 330608.jpg

what do you think

ole vidar

[gj09303]

Hi

Sorry!
I was 100 years wrong in my answeer
So I erased it!

Vivi

[Bjørg Lunde]

I know it may be nothing but saw this as I was searching for some one

2nd item down right hand page

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 330608.jpg

Assuming that Sjul born in 1782 was son of Ole Olsen (Ristvedt):
- Sjul was "ektefødt", so in 1782 Ole Olsen was married.
- Ole born 1812 was "uekte". If Ole Olsen was married or if he was a widower this would have been written in the records.

I don't believe this is the correct Ole Olsen.

mvh Bjørg

[gj09303]

Hi

(I'll try to get it correct this time... )

You have found a Ole Olsen from Nummedal who are the father of a son Ole born Nov 15, 1812.
Your Ole Olssen Ristvedt had a son born 1763 so he most likely is born no later than 1745. This makes him no younger than 67 years old in 1812. Probably he is around 10 years older.
It is of course possible that he had a son in 1812, but not likely?
The father Ole is not noted either as Ungkarl (bachelor), gift (married) nor ektemann (widower).

Interesting to read the name Johan Andersen Myhra and also farm-name Ristvedt among the witnesses, though.

If this father is the same as Ole Olssen Ristvedt from 1763 then this child Ole must die before 1817 or else he too should have been mentioned in Ole Olssen Saga's probate.


Vivi

[gj11124]

HI VIVI
YES I ALSO AGREE WITH YOU ALWAYS LOOKING THOUGH

WHAT I HAVE ALSO DISCOVERED WHICH IS FUNNY IS THAT A CHILD OF PAUL OLSEN SAGA (SON OF OLE OLSEN SAGA) CHRISTIAN PAULSØN BOMMEN MARRIED INGEBORG SOPHIE OLSDATTER RAAEN WHOSE MOTHER WAS STINA MARIE JOHANSDATTER WHOSE DAD WAS JOHAN ANDERSEN MYHRA AND ONE OF ANDERS PAULSEN BOMMENS CHILDREN ALSO MARRIED INTO THE RAAEN FAMILY(MARIE ANDERSEN BOMMEN MARRIED JACOB OLAVES RAAEN




OLE VIDAR