gendex replacement

[Ronald]

Hi,

Since the demise of gendex (http://www.gendex.com/gendex) I feel there has
been a void, I used this service regularly and found it very helpfull.
I am in the process of writing software to continue the gendex
service. The idea is that for a small yearly charge (say $7.50) you
can register your gendex file and this will then be available for
searching.

I am hoping to find out (via this forum) if people would be interested
in using this service, and if they would be willing to pay something
for this service. At present I am trying to get an idea if this is
viable, or maybe a different charge would be appropiate.

Please pass this message onto other groups, and please forward any
comments to myself.



Thanks,

Ronald

[Dave Hinz]

On 13 Aug 2004 08:55:59 -0700, Ronald <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi,

Since the demise of gendex (http://www.gendex.com/gendex) I feel there has
been a void, I used this service regularly and found it very helpfull.
I am in the process of writing software to continue the gendex
service. The idea is that for a small yearly charge (say $7.50) you
can register your gendex file and this will then be available for
searching.

Well, I don't know why Gene stopped doing it, but I got the impression
that much of the reason was that it was costing him money and people
weren't kicking in. Maybe he would be willing to fill you in if you
asked him directly; I've talked to him via email more than a few times
over the years, and he always was quite approachable.

I am hoping to find out (via this forum) if people would be interested
in using this service, and if they would be willing to pay something
for this service. At present I am trying to get an idea if this is
viable, or maybe a different charge would be appropiate.

To be blunt, I think there's a lot of people here who wouldn't
pay for _any_ kind of online service. I'm not one of those, I
figure that even though what _I_ am doing I'm donating, that
doesn't mean that everyone else should do work and host systems for
free.

Please pass this message onto other groups, and please forward any
comments to myself.

Well, I sure hope you're going to check back on the groups you ask this
in, otherwise you'll be limiting the information you get back.

Dave Hinz

[Gjest]

Take subscriptions before you spend a dime on the servers.
Genealogists are a cheap crowd. You'll starve.


On 13 Aug 2004 17:33:42 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:

On 13 Aug 2004 08:55:59 -0700, Ronald <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,

Since the demise of gendex (http://www.gendex.com/gendex) I feel there has
been a void, I used this service regularly and found it very helpfull.
I am in the process of writing software to continue the gendex
service. The idea is that for a small yearly charge (say $7.50) you
can register your gendex file and this will then be available for
searching.

Well, I don't know why Gene stopped doing it, but I got the impression
that much of the reason was that it was costing him money and people
weren't kicking in. Maybe he would be willing to fill you in if you
asked him directly; I've talked to him via email more than a few times
over the years, and he always was quite approachable.

I am hoping to find out (via this forum) if people would be interested
in using this service, and if they would be willing to pay something
for this service. At present I am trying to get an idea if this is
viable, or maybe a different charge would be appropiate.

To be blunt, I think there's a lot of people here who wouldn't
pay for _any_ kind of online service. I'm not one of those, I
figure that even though what _I_ am doing I'm donating, that
doesn't mean that everyone else should do work and host systems for
free.

Please pass this message onto other groups, and please forward any
comments to myself.

Well, I sure hope you're going to check back on the groups you ask this
in, otherwise you'll be limiting the information you get back.

Dave Hinz

[Scott Barnes]

Ronald ([email protected]) says...

I am hoping to find out (via this forum) if people would be interested
in using this service, and if they would be willing to pay something
for this service. At present I am trying to get an idea if this is
viable, or maybe a different charge would be appropiate.

I think GENDEX died because it never evolved much from its original mid-
1990s incarnation. If one was looking for an unusual surname in the
days before Rootsweb Worldconnect and Google, GENDEX was a great way to
see what was available online.

Also, I wonder how long static GEDCOM-to-HTML tools will remain useful.
Both of my genealogy websites still use GED2HTML, but only until I get
up to speed on phpGedView (http://phpgedview.sourceforge.net/). To
update a website, phpGedView requires one GEDCOM upload to the
webserver, instead of thousands of little HTML uploads.

If you want to provide a service, perhaps phpGedView-enabled web hosting
acccounts would be a viable business. While I am fortunate enough to
have PHP-enabled websites, I'm sure there are many other people stuck
with ISP web hosts that don't support PHP.

-- Scott

[Steve Hayes]

On 13 Aug 2004 08:55:59 -0700, [email protected] (Ronald) wrote:

Hi,

Since the demise of gendex (http://www.gendex.com/gendex) I feel there has
been a void, I used this service regularly and found it very helpfull.
I am in the process of writing software to continue the gendex
service. The idea is that for a small yearly charge (say $7.50) you
can register your gendex file and this will then be available for
searching.

I am hoping to find out (via this forum) if people would be interested
in using this service, and if they would be willing to pay something
for this service. At present I am trying to get an idea if this is
viable, or maybe a different charge would be appropiate.

What is gendex file, and how does it work?

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Helen Castle]

From my use of Gendex:

Legacy will produce a Gendex file and I pointed the Gendex Search engine to
the server where it was located and the file was indexed by Gendex on a
regular basis and anyone searching could find a link to me

Gendex also searched other geneology websites and produced a index of links
to names on those websites.

Cant demonstrate as Gendex is no longer working

Helen Castle
Narangba Qld
"Steve Hayes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

On 13 Aug 2004 08:55:59 -0700, [email protected] (Ronald) wrote:

Hi,

Since the demise of gendex (http://www.gendex.com/gendex) I feel there has
been a void, I used this service regularly and found it very helpfull.
I am in the process of writing software to continue the gendex
service. The idea is that for a small yearly charge (say $7.50) you
can register your gendex file and this will then be available for
searching.

I am hoping to find out (via this forum) if people would be interested
in using this service, and if they would be willing to pay something
for this service. At present I am trying to get an idea if this is
viable, or maybe a different charge would be appropiate.

What is gendex file, and how does it work?

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop
uk

[Ronald]

Scott,

Gendex does not only work with GED2HTML, but also with products that
produce dynamic HTML pages like TNG and possibly phpGedView.

So I think there is still a market out there.


Ronald

Scott Barnes <[email protected]> wrote in message >

I think GENDEX died because it never evolved much from its original mid-
1990s incarnation. If one was looking for an unusual surname in the
days before Rootsweb Worldconnect and Google, GENDEX was a great way to
see what was available online.

Also, I wonder how long static GEDCOM-to-HTML tools will remain useful.
Both of my genealogy websites still use GED2HTML, but only until I get
up to speed on phpGedView (http://phpgedview.sourceforge.net/). To
update a website, phpGedView requires one GEDCOM upload to the
webserver, instead of thousands of little HTML uploads.

If you want to provide a service, perhaps phpGedView-enabled web hosting
acccounts would be a viable business. While I am fortunate enough to
have PHP-enabled websites, I'm sure there are many other people stuck
with ISP web hosts that don't support PHP.

-- Scott

[Gjest]

There's a site, Global Tree, http://www.gencircles.com/globaltree/,
that hosts GEDCOMs and does a decent job of indexing and matching
potential matches. The basic service is free, and it allows you to
contact the poster.


On 13 Aug 2004 08:55:59 -0700, [email protected] (Ronald) wrote:

Hi,

Since the demise of gendex (http://www.gendex.com/gendex) I feel there has
been a void, I used this service regularly and found it very helpfull.
I am in the process of writing software to continue the gendex
service. The idea is that for a small yearly charge (say $7.50) you
can register your gendex file and this will then be available for
searching.

I am hoping to find out (via this forum) if people would be interested
in using this service, and if they would be willing to pay something
for this service. At present I am trying to get an idea if this is
viable, or maybe a different charge would be appropiate.

Please pass this message onto other groups, and please forward any
comments to myself.



Thanks,

Ronald

[Scott Barnes]

Ronald ([email protected]) says...

Gendex does not only work with GED2HTML, but also with products that
produce dynamic HTML pages like TNG and possibly phpGedView.

Even so, the Gendex.TXT file doesn't allow you to provide much search
capability. Consider this fictitious entry from a Gendex index file:

f0000012.html#I517|SMITH|Thomas Bradford /SMITH/|18 Sep 1870|Atlanta,
GA|5 Apr 1944|Atlanta, GA|

A Gendex-based search engine can allow searches on name, birth
date+location, and death date+location, period. If I'm interested in
"Thomas Smith, son of John Smith" the search engine can't help me at
all; I must click through to dozens or hundreds of websites.

Since Gendex can't help me sort out relationships, it provides only a
marginal benefit over a search like "'Thomas Smith' genealogy" on
Google. Moreover, Gendex provides a distinctly inferior search
capability compared to a GEDCOM aggregator like Rootsweb Worldconnect.
Why do you think Gendex will remain a viable, much less marketable,
service?

-- Scott

[Austin W. Spencer]

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:23:34 GMT, Scott Barnes <[email protected]> wrote:

Ronald ([email protected]) says...
Gendex does not only work with GED2HTML, but also with products that
produce dynamic HTML pages like TNG and possibly phpGedView.

Even so, the Gendex.TXT file doesn't allow you to provide much search
capability. Consider this fictitious entry from a Gendex index file:

f0000012.html#I517|SMITH|Thomas Bradford /SMITH/|18 Sep 1870|Atlanta,
GA|5 Apr 1944|Atlanta, GA|

A Gendex-based search engine can allow searches on name, birth
date+location, and death date+location, period. If I'm interested in
"Thomas Smith, son of John Smith" the search engine can't help me at
all; I must click through to dozens or hundreds of websites.

Since Gendex can't help me sort out relationships, it provides only a
marginal benefit over a search like "'Thomas Smith' genealogy" on
Google. Moreover, Gendex provides a distinctly inferior search
capability compared to a GEDCOM aggregator like Rootsweb Worldconnect.
Why do you think Gendex will remain a viable, much less marketable,
service?

-- Scott

It doesn't take that great an advance on the existing Gendex code to list the
*names* of Thomas Smith's parents. This is exactly what GenCircles offers, and I
see that another poster has already mentioned it. Indeed, in its last days of
operation, Gendex did link with all the names listed on GenCircles, even though
Gendex did not list or match their parents. It is not as though the indexing
mechanisms were ever incompatible. And, for those with the requisite knowledge,
to compile a new GENDEX.TXT generator that also indexes parents' names would be
simplicity itself.

The obvious weakness of the GEDCOM-aggregator model is that each GEDCOM
aggregator only respects itself. It is not now possible to search all of them at
once. More serious yet, however, a GEDCOM aggregator can only index data that is
organized in a certain way. Anyone who authors a site that does not depend on
GEDCOM for storage, or for a platform for Web page generation, writes off the
capability of that system to index his or her own data. So, in fact, do those
who write for print.

I can't say that Ronald's idea is completely unappealing. But his reliance on
Gendex as an operating model imposes clear limits as far as implementation is
concerned.

Austin W. Spencer

[D. Stussy]

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004, Scott Barnes wrote:

Ronald ([email protected]) says...
I am hoping to find out (via this forum) if people would be interested
in using this service, and if they would be willing to pay something
for this service. At present I am trying to get an idea if this is
viable, or maybe a different charge would be appropiate.

I think GENDEX died because it never evolved much from its original mid-
1990s incarnation. If one was looking for an unusual surname in the
days before Rootsweb Worldconnect and Google, GENDEX was a great way to
see what was available online.

Also, I wonder how long static GEDCOM-to-HTML tools will remain useful.
Both of my genealogy websites still use GED2HTML, but only until I get
up to speed on phpGedView (http://phpgedview.sourceforge.net/). To
update a website, phpGedView requires one GEDCOM upload to the
webserver, instead of thousands of little HTML uploads.

Thousands of little uploads? I guess you have never worked with file archiving
programs. Archive a whole directory-full of files, compress them, FTP that,
and uncompress them at the server ("unzip" or "untar" being the most common
operations). There's also batch uploading via "mput *" (having turned
prompting OFF) using a classical, text-line based FTP program.

As for phpgedview, it was a good idea but very badly designed. I certainly
hope that the design has evolved into something workable over the past two
years. It seemed to like to have one big, flat database table for most things
- which wouldn't permit multiple events (e.g. births) for the same person when
one has two or more different sources indicating different values and a
genealogy program that will export BOTH into the gedcom formatted file. [I
last played with it about two years ago. It was obviously laid out by someone
who didn't understand relational database management.]

If you want to provide a service, perhaps phpGedView-enabled web hosting
acccounts would be a viable business. While I am fortunate enough to
have PHP-enabled websites, I'm sure there are many other people stuck
with ISP web hosts that don't support PHP.

That's another problem. Many ISP sponsored web servers don't allow server-side
operations.

[D. Stussy]

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004, Scott Barnes wrote:

Ronald ([email protected]) says...
Gendex does not only work with GED2HTML, but also with products that
produce dynamic HTML pages like TNG and possibly phpGedView.

Even so, the Gendex.TXT file doesn't allow you to provide much search
capability. Consider this fictitious entry from a Gendex index file:

f0000012.html#I517|SMITH|Thomas Bradford /SMITH/|18 Sep 1870|Atlanta,
GA|5 Apr 1944|Atlanta, GA|

A Gendex-based search engine can allow searches on name, birth
date+location, and death date+location, period. If I'm interested in
"Thomas Smith, son of John Smith" the search engine can't help me at
all; I must click through to dozens or hundreds of websites.

Since Gendex can't help me sort out relationships, it provides only a
marginal benefit over a search like "'Thomas Smith' genealogy" on
Google. Moreover, Gendex provides a distinctly inferior search
capability compared to a GEDCOM aggregator like Rootsweb Worldconnect.
Why do you think Gendex will remain a viable, much less marketable,
service?

For some, it was better than NO service.

The general search engines, such as google, can be used without overwheming
results if one feeds it with the correct keywords in addition to the surnames
of interest.

[olivier,marquet@skynet,be]

"Steve Hayes" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
<[email protected]>...

What is gendex file, and how does it work?

Take a look at http://www.geneanet.com or http://www.gencircles.com they have pretty much
the same philosophy, but they do allow for far better researchs. And they
are freee, of course.

[olivier,marquet@skynet,be]

"D. Stussy" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
....

As for phpgedview, it was a good idea but very badly designed. I
certainly
hope that the design has evolved into something workable over the past two
years. It seemed to like to have one big, flat database table for most
things
- which wouldn't permit multiple events (e.g. births) for the same person
when
one has two or more different sources indicating different values and a
genealogy program that will export BOTH into the gedcom formatted file.
[I
last played with it about two years ago. It was obviously laid out by
someone
who didn't understand relational database management.]
....

Take a look at TNG, also a php-based internet software
running at my site at http://www.neptis.be/nuke1
and more than satisfactory

Olivier

[Denis Beauregard]

Le Mon, 23 Aug 2004 22:55:20 +0200, "olivier,marquet@skynet,be"
<[email protected]> écrivait dans soc.genealogy.computing:

"Steve Hayes" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]>...

What is gendex file, and how does it work?

Take a look at http://www.geneanet.com or http://www.gencircles.com they have pretty much
the same philosophy, but they do allow for far better researchs. And they
are freee, of course.

Pas geneanet. Gendex permettait de trouver un individu (avec le
prénom et les dates et lieux de naissance et de décès). Ce n'est
même pas comparable.


Denis

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 22:55:20 +0200, "olivier,marquet@skynet,be"
<[email protected]> wrote:

"Steve Hayes" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]>...

What is gendex file, and how does it work?

Take a look at http://www.geneanet.com or http://www.gencircles.com they have pretty much
the same philosophy, but they do allow for far better researchs. And they
are freee, of course.

I use gencircles, but Legacy does not, as far as I know, produce a
"gencircles" file -- it produces a gedcom file which I upload.

Let me rephrase my question:

What is the difference between a gendex file and a gedcom file?


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Denis Beauregard]

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 05:36:29 GMT, [email protected] (Steve Hayes)
wrote in soc.genealogy.computing:

What is the difference between a gendex file and a gedcom file?

A GEDCOM file is a linked complete pedigree file. Each person is
linked to either the couple of parents (as children) or the couple
forming parents (as parents). A family unit has the marriage
data, the name of the partners and the list of children (actually
their ID). Some GEDCOM files will have a list of sources in a
separate section.

A GENDEX file is an index of persons in a file or database. The
file could be a GEDCOM but it is not required. The file will give
the names of individuals, their number in the database, place and
date of birth and death, but no link to other persons.

A TINYTAFEL is limited to family names and places where persons
were living.

A GENEANET file is similar to a TINYTAFEL.

Thus, you can use a GEDCOM file to generate a GENDEX or TINYTAFEL.

If you convert a GENDEX file to a GEDCOM file, all you will have
will be a series of unlinked persons.

If you convert a GENDEX file to a TINYTAFEL, you will get about
the same data but with no first names.


Denis

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 02:38:23 -0400, Denis Beauregard <[email protected]>
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 05:36:29 GMT, [email protected] (Steve Hayes)
wrote in soc.genealogy.computing:

What is the difference between a gendex file and a gedcom file?

A GENDEX file is an index of persons in a file or database. The
file could be a GEDCOM but it is not required. The file will give
the names of individuals, their number in the database, place and
date of birth and death, but no link to other persons.

A TINYTAFEL is limited to family names and places where persons
were living.

A GENEANET file is similar to a TINYTAFEL.

Thus, you can use a GEDCOM file to generate a GENDEX or TINYTAFEL.

If you convert a GENDEX file to a GEDCOM file, all you will have
will be a series of unlinked persons.

If you convert a GENDEX file to a TINYTAFEL, you will get about
the same data but with no first names.

Thanks very much.

Next question: what software does one need to create or read a Gendex file?
And can a Gendex file, like a Tiny Tafel, be read by the naked eye (a
printout, that is).


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Patrick Texier]

Le Wed, 25 Aug 2004 04:25:12 GMT, [email protected] (Steve Hayes) a
écrit :

Next question: what software does one need to create or read a Gendex file?

LifeLines with this program:

===== gendex.ll =======
global(TRUE)
global(FALSE)
global(idx)
global(n)
global(indiv)
global(v)
global(birthdate)
global(birthplace)
global(deathdate)
global(deathplace)
global(ok)
global(okplace)
global(ficgendex)

proc main ()
{
set(TRUE,1)
set(FALSE,0)
set(ficgedcom, "ptexier.ged") /* Gedcom filename */

if(TRUE) {
getint(onlyplace,
"Only lines with places : 0-No 1-Yes")
} else {
set(onlyplace, 1)
}
indiset(idx)
monthformat(4)
print(nl()) print("Reading all persons.") print (nl())
forindi(indiv,n) {
addtoset(idx,indiv,n)
}
print(nl()) print("indexed ") print(d(n)) print(" persons.")
print(nl())
print(nl())
print("begin sorting") print(nl())
namesort(idx)
print("done sorting") print(nl())
print("creating Gendex file") print(nl())

forindiset(idx,indiv,v,n)
{
set(birthdate, "")
set(birthplace, "")
set(deathdate, "")
set(deathplace, "")
set(ok, 0)
set(okplace, 0)

set (ev, birth(indiv))
if (or(date(ev),place(ev))) {
set(birthdate, date(ev))
set(birthplace, place(ev))
set(ok, 1)
if(place(ev)) {set(okplace,1)}
}
else {
set(ev, baptism(indiv))
if(or(date(ev),place(ev))) {
set(birthplace, date(ev))
set(birthplace, date(ev))
set(ok, 1)
if(place(ev)) {set(okplace,1)}
}
}
set (ev, death(indiv))
if (or(date(ev),place(ev))) {
set(deathdate, date(ev))
set(deathplace, place(ev))
set (ok, 1)
if(place(ev)) {set(okplace,1)}
}
else {
set (ev, burial(indiv))
if (or(date(ev),place(ev))) {
set(deathdate, date(ev))
set(deathplace, place(ev))
set(ok, 1)
if(place(ev)) {set(okplace,1)}
}
}
if(and(eq(onlyplace,1),eq(okplace,0))) {set(ok,0)}
if(eq(ok, 1)) {
ficgedcom "|" surname(indiv) "|" givens(indiv)
" /" surname (indiv) "/|" birthdate "|"
birthplace "|" deathdate "|" deathplace
"|" nl()}
}
}
============================================

And can a Gendex file, like a Tiny Tafel, be read by the naked eye (a
printout, that is).

Yes, an exemple :

| ptexier.ged|Claper|Lena Ann /Claper/|ABT 1880|Salisbury, Vermont, , USA|16 JUN 1948|Proctor, Vermont, , USA|
| ptexier.ged|Clark|Carl Eddy /Clark/|3 NOV 1895|Ripton, Vermont, , USA|13 NOV 1980||
| ptexier.ged|Clark|Charles Eddie /Clark/|10 JUL 1874|Lincoln, Vermont, , USA|24 JUL 1957|Middlebury, Vermont, , USA|

--
Patrick Texier

[Denis Beauregard]

Le Sun, 29 Aug 2004 23:52:00 GMT, "D. Stussy"
<[email protected]> écrivait dans soc.genealogy.computing:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004, Denis Beauregard wrote:
Le Mon, 23 Aug 2004 22:55:20 +0200, "olivier,marquet@skynet,be"
[email protected]> écrivait dans soc.genealogy.computing:
"Steve Hayes" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]>...

What is gendex file, and how does it work?

Take a look at http://www.geneanet.com or http://www.gencircles.com they have pretty much
the same philosophy, but they do allow for far better researchs. And they
are freee, of course.

Pas geneanet. Gendex permettait de trouver un individu (avec le
prénom et les dates et lieux de naissance et de décès). Ce n'est
même pas comparable.

I looked at that (last version examined: 4.06), but you really need to get
away from that OCAML compiler and use something more traditional like C.

Geneanet is not Geneweb !!! While geneanet is using geneweb to host
some people, basically, geneanet is a database of family names. In
comparison, gendex is a database of names. Geneweb may have its own
format (I don't know), but it would be something similar to GEDCOM,
i.e. supporting linkage between families and persons.


Denis

[rjlucia]

yes please. I liked Gendex and only found out yesterday that it was gone.
I agree we need to replace it - improve it if we can, but replace it we
must.

It is so much nicer to provide a url to a gendex file rather than give a
gedcom file. Gendex leaves so much more control to the user.

Russell
http://geocities.com/rjlucia