Andreas Hansen og kone Olea Jensdatter Glørud holtet

[gj08048]

They were married in Eidsberg November 27 1819.

They moved to Glørud holtet from Østre Berg in Eidsberg in 1824?. Rakkestad church book 1825-1841 page 250 #40,41,42,43.

Grandson Ole Kristian Kristensen lives on Brattefoss i Eidsberg in 1900 census. O. Rygh's book says" Ved en Fos i Glørudelven paa Grændsen mod Rakkestad". Can someone tell me what this means?

Most important can someone tell me who the father of Andreas Hansen Berg born circa 1790-91 was? I think it may be Hans Eliasen Bakke on Brandsrud or Hans Gulbrandsen on Sletner? But I can find no proof.

Children of Andreas og Olea

Anne Marie 1820 Østre Berg
Kristen 1823 Østre Berg
Maren 1825 Glørud Holtet
Johanne 1828 Glørud Holtet
Anne 1832 Glørud Holtet
Elen 1835 Glørud Holtet
Hans Peter 1838 Glørud Holtet
Johan 1843 Glørud Holtet


Hans Guldbrandsen has a son Andreas born on N. Langnæs on 17 Oct 1790 and christened 27 Nov.click here

Hans Eliasen has a son Andreas born 9 Jan 1791 click here

Andreas Hansen died at Glørud Holtet on 9 July 1859 at age 68 click here

Olea Jendatter died in Tromborg 10 Apr 1880 click here

[dn20441]

Hello Eric - and welcome to DIS,

I'll try to help you with some of your questions (I might have some personal background for that ...).

BRATTFOSS / BRATTFOSS BRUK (mill) is an interesting - and idyllic - place, located at the edge of "Trømborgfjella" on the border between Trømborg and Rakkestad (with Glørud as a neighbour across this border). A "husmannsplass" under Rud N. in Trømborg; 3 Trømborg farms had their mills at the waterfall. 2 mills were closed and a new bigger mill built in the 1880s. Brattfoss Bruk was bought by architect Sigurd Bentsen in 1903 and the mill was modernized and developed. Bentsen also built a mechanical workshop which developed into a small industrial enterprise to become a pioneering plant for equipment to small flour mills. Sigurd Bentsen was also the architect of the new school and municipal administration buildings at Heggin in 1927. These great houses are still the finest buildings in Mysen!

ANDREAS HANSEN is mentioned in "Eidsberg gårdshistorie II" as the user of Berg Ø. in the 1820s for the owner captain (von) Fritzner who possibly had moved from Berg at that time. The farm history has few details about Andreas' family. Wife's background (Vete S.), 3 children - with spouses for 2 of them. No birth or death dates for Andreas and Olea.

My GUESS is that HANS BACHE, BRANDSRUD could be Andreas' father. Because: both Brandsrud and Berg Ø. are quarters for local military company chiefs in the beginning of the 1800s, Berg Ø. the personal property of capt. Fritzner of "Eidsbergske kompani av Akershusiske skarpskytterregiment" (company chief till 1815); and Brandsrud was chief's farm for the chief of "Eidsbergske dragonkompani".
The private half of Brandsrud was owned and used by HANS BACHE who was quarter master (petty (?) officer) of "Eidsbergske dragonkompani".
Andreas Hansen may have been chosen to farm Capt. Fritzner's farm Berg presisely because of such military links ... ? But is it possible to prove this ... ?

I have looked at lists of godparents for some of the children and only found neighbours, and no clear relatives ... A Christian Hansen is among them, and Hans Bache's oldest son was called Christian (b. 1789). And he stayed in Eidsberg after his father moved (to Høland), 1810 or before.

A closer look at godparents for all children might give some clues.
Actually, Eric, I think some of Olea & Hans' children are "missing" from your list:
There should posibly be an "earlier" Hans born before Kristen, and JENS is missing.

Egil G.

[gj08048]

Tusen Takk for hjelpen Egil

I knew when I saw your name I had come to the right place.

This makes sense as the person who is signing for Oleas confirmation is Capt. Fritzner in 1814.klikkk her

Is it possible Capt. Niels von Fritzner is Oleas father/guardian?

Also when Kristen Andreassen leaves Glørud Holtet after the death of his youngest son, Martin in 1875, there is a Marie Olsdr Bakke but no obvious relation.klikk her

Also how do you know Hans Eliasen went to Høland and where is Høland?

[dn20441]

Hello,

I can't make your links work

But I also saw OLINE MARIE JENSDTR.'s confirmation from Berg with capt. Fritzner as foster (?) father. But is this the same person as the wife OLEA? Very possible.
There is also a Olea Jensdtr. b. 1801 with confirmation from Lislerud. But I cannot find christening in Eidsberg for either of them from the birth/chr. dates at confirmation ....

Eidsberg farm history II, p. 481: "Andreas Hansen g. m. (marr. to) Olea Jensdtr. Sø-Vete".
E. farm history I about the Vete farms has no mention of Olea Jensdtr.
Census 1801 has Jens Rasmussen as the owner/farmer of Vethe S. (in Farm Hist. called Jon), but this cannot be Olea's father.
Olea certainly is at Vete when they marry, but this could be as a servant ....

Incidentally, and maybe only by chance, there are ownership connections between both the Vete and Berg E. farms and Glørud around 1800.

E. farm hist. II, p. 75 (about Brandsrud):
"Hans Eliassen Bache, b. ca. 1766, d. 1837 in Høland, m. t. Anne Kristensdatter Brandsrud, b. 1766"
H.E.B. had obtained 1/2 Brandsrud from his brother-in-law.
Farm hist. mentions new farmers at Brandsrud after H.E.B. from ca. 1810.
Høland is south in Akerhus county, north of Trøgstad.

Egil G.

[dn20441]

Capt. Fritzner is not Olea's (Oline's) father. His full name: Niels Dorph Heide (von) Fritzner.
(It was customary for Danish-Norw. officers to add "von" - has nothing to do with nobility.)

Re. social class: this is another indication of preference for the "military connection" Andreas. It is more plausible that a decendant of self-owning farmers is chosen to take over the farming of Berg E. for capt. Fritzner, than the alternative Andreas. It seems that he is of "husmanns" people ... ?

But still a chance that Andreas is not born i Eidsberg ... ?

Egil

[dn20441]

Misprint about Anne Kristensdtr. Brandsrud: born 1762 (acc. to E. farm hist.)

E. G.

[gj08048]

Tusen Takk Egil

In the 1865 census for Glørud Holtet it shows Olea as born in Kristiania. this is true for her death record also. I have not been able to find her in Kristiania though.

I will work on the links.

Thank you so much for all the info

I cannot find any Hans or Jens as children. When they move from Eidsberg to Glørud Holtet about 1823-25 it is just Andreas and Olea and children Anne Maria( born 29 Oct. 1820) , and Kristen( born 11 Apr 1823). This is from Rakkestad 1825-1841 page 250 numbers 40-43klikk her

[dn20441]

Link working fine now.

I had just "discovered" that there were info. in your first message about Olea/Oline that I hadn't checked.

So looking at Census 1865 and the death record, I see that she is born in Kristiania.

Appearantly this is the girl confirmed from Berg E. as foster daughter or c./o. capt. Fritzner.
Her name should be OLINE MARIE JENSDATTER, born 1800 or 1799 (there is a birth/chr. date at the confirmation record).

Her she is in 1801 with parents in "OPSLO":

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/We ... k=421#ovre

I think Opslo = Oslo East, outside city borders in 1800. I think that may be east of the Aker river = Vaterland ???

Who are the parents? How/why did she come to the Berg farm ... ?

So Oline M. died as "føderaads-(kone)" at one of the Trømborg farms? Because a daughter or son had moved there ...?
Suspecting this is getting close(r) to my own family ..... (Already noted that Andreas had as his best man when marrying the brother of one of my 3x (ca.) gr. grandmothers..)

Egil

[gj08048]

Again Tusen Takk Egil

I think I fixed some of the links.

Kristen Andreassen moved to Lilleby i Edsberg after the death of his youngest son Martin klikk her66-71

Kristen died there on 11 Apr 1893. His 70 birthday. klikkher

Anne kristine Svendsdatter died 22 Dec 1893. Same link as above.

Most of the children were on Trømborg farms at this time. I will make a list.

Anne Maria Andreasdatter is married to Thorer Pedersen and living at Trømborg vestre.klikk her
Johanne Andreasdatter is living on Trømborg vestre as well.

Anne Andreasdatter married a Gulbrand Christiansen and lived on Trømborg Østre from 1853 to 1855 then moving back to Stemmeplads i Rakkestad klikk her
And here is the marriageklikk her number 30 Kolshus mentioned


Elen Andreasdatter married a Thorer Svendsen and is on Nygaard in 1865.klikk her

Hans Peter Andreassen married Marthe Thorkildsdatter and lives on Thorkildhytten.klikk her

Johan Andreassen left Glørud Holtet to work at Bøler vestre I think.klikk her

Which best man are you related to?

Hans Bakke died 3 March 1837 (number 39).
her

Tusen Takk

[dn20441]

Again, I may be too quick ....

The Eidsb. farm hist. (vol. I, p. 481) had this info. about the link to a Trømborg farm:
The eldest daughter Anne Maria married Torer Petersen Trømborg W.
I should have second cousin(s) on that farm (although I think part of that farm has been joined with a Kolshus farm).
I'll check if there are any direct links to our family. Anyway, Gløruds on (some of) those farms today. Lived there myself for a year as very small ....

E. farm hist. also had info about Kristen Andreassen to Brattfoss and Lilleby.

The best man I mentioned, is Andreas' "cautionist" Kristen Hotvedt (Hoeltvedt), the owner/farmer of Berg's neighbouring farm Hotvedt - probably the most important property in the close vicinity of Berg.
Berg itself is a very fine farm, more than medium size for this area of fine family farms, with large flat fields. Capt. Fritzner used to train his soldiers on the farm fields, it is said. It was no small property Andreas was set to take care of, before he and family moved to Glørud.
I see from the church record that he had bought Glørud-holtet, meaning that this part of Glørud had been split from the main property already in 1824 or before. Holtet was/is a rather small property. But it means that Andreas' family stays within the class of free, self-owning farmers - a quite important distinction in those days.

Berg E. now belongs to a branch of the Mysen family. Used to visit a class mate who lived there and is the present owner (I think).

Egil

[dn20441]

Of course, I already had some of these people in my family database....
Anyway Anne Marie Trømborg W. She is the mother of Hans E. Torersen Trømborg - an important person in Eidsberg's more recent history. He was mayor 1899 - 1910. He originally built the store and "dairy" in Trømborg (1885) that my grandfather took over (1895) - and where my father grew up. A second cousin now living on H. T. Trømborg's Kolshus farm.

Egil

[gj08048]

Way too cool Egil

I cannot figure out how to upload a foto, but I am working on it. There is definitely a family resemblence.

I also have an Ole Peter Torersen and a Maren Oline Torersdatter. Brother and sister to Hans Edvard Torersen.

[dn20441]

Hans E. Bache: must be him you found dead & buried in Høland, 1837. Age not exactly in acc. with the birth date 1766 in the Brandsrud text in Farm hist. Somtimes church records are rather approx. with age - old people may be given age 80 - 90 - even 100 years - almost arbitrarily it seems
These pages from Høland are very difficult to read - rather "hairy" gothic scripts .....

Someone has in Familysearch given Hans Eliassen's birth as ca. 1760 ...
Born at Bakke, Hærland, which gives sense, but where exactly is that? And what is the source?

Some of the "cottage farms" mentioned in Trømborg must be around the former Aasgaard school. Probably under the Dyngen / Dynjan farm, or Krosby.
There is still no farm history for Trømborg (and will not be for some more years ....).
But Nygaard which was under Smerkerud, is covered (bec. Smerkerud for some odd reason did not belong to Trømborg parish).
It is told about Torer Svendsen, m. t. Elen Andreasdtr. Glørudholtet that he is born 1832 in Rødenes at Toketorpplassen. Came to Nygaard ca. 1864, before on Lytomt. Carpenter. Moved with his family to Fredrikstad, spring 1868.

This might be of interest - if you don't already know - church yards in Eidsberg, with photos:

http://www.disnorge.no/gravminner/vis.p ... gp&id=0125

E. G.

[gj08048]

Egil

I think the source for this is a mormon reading the church book for Eidsberg where it mentions Hans' marriage to Anne Xtensdrklikk hernumber 14.

In 1854 Kristen Andreassen married Anne Kristine Svendsdatterklikk her Later i winter of 1858 he would return to Glørud Holtet. It is in 1859 Andreas died.

I mention this because Johan Arnt Kristensen, Kristen's first son, is born klikk her on Aasgard plads i Trømborg. And your last post mentioned Aasgard

This is Kristen from Glørud to Eidsberg number 58 klikk her His sister Anne is here as #57 also

Karl Ludvig is Johan's first child (i think )and he is born on Glørud 11 Apr 1877klikk her

All of this information is extremely interesting Egil. Tusen Takk

[gj08048]

Hei Egil

I have a Anne Hansdatter Bakke. I think this is the datter of H.E.B. She was buried 22 Oct 1809. It mentions Langebrekke. Is this a helpful clue?klikk her

Tusen Takk Eric

[dn20441]

Hei igjen!

Imponerende alt du finner i kirkebøker!!!

Problems with links.

To make links to Church records:
- open and select one of the options for "Bildeinformasjon:" in the top blue field
- copy as link the "address" after "Permanent sidelenke:"

Anne Hansdatter Bakke at Langebrække is Andreas' sister
This can be deducted from text in Eidsberg farm hist. I.
Andreas is also at Langebrække at confirmation - No 7 from top, column 4:

Kildeinformasjon: Østfold fylke, Eidsberg, Ministerialbok nr. I 5 (1786-1807), Konfirmerte 1805-1806, side 132.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-135

(Your alternative Andreas' confirmation in col. 2, ca. No 18 from top - A. H. Sletner Pl(ads))

Hans E. Bakke's children:
Christian b. 1789 - to Brekke Bruk, Os (R.stad)
Andreas b. 1792 (acc. to Farm hist. I)
Petter b. 1793, d. 1796
Torer b.1795
Anne b. 1798, d. 1809
Petter b. 1801

The story about Brandsrud and Langebrække, covered in Farm hist., is interesting once we have a proof that A. H. Brandsrud = A. H. Berg E./Glørudholtet. So far only "circumstancial" ... ?

I guess we need the "skifte" acts (the off. acts on inheritance distrib.) after death of Hans E. Bache or his wife Anne Kristensdtr. (when/where did she die?) - alternatively of Andreas' siblings. Such acts normally found in off. archives. There is a digit. process, but so far not very much completed (?).
Register of such acts for some periods for our region to be found here:

http://www.rhd.uit.no/

(Register over skifteprotokoller for et begrenset område.)

Something in DIGITALARKIVET (more complete acts) and DIGITALPENSJONATET, but not aware of anything searchable for our region.

Short version about Bakke fam. at Brandsrud/Langebrekke:
H.E.B.'s parents-in-law, Kristen Evensen Mysen S. & Marte Torsdtr. Randem (Randum) - of the local farmers "aristocracy" - had bought the private part of Brandsrud + Langebrekke (neighb. farm). The Brandsrud part to son-in-law, H.E.B; Langebrekke to oldest son, Even (who was not too satisfied, but had a controvercy with his mother...)

Land for mil. exercise grounds, Momarken, from Langebrekke, beg. of 1800s. Now the well-known horse trot course - also site of "Momarkedet". Momarken a centuries old market place.

E. G.

[gj08048]

Tusen Takk Egil

Bildeinformasjon is definitely the key. I had thought my problem was with the page magnification. Beklage, men jeg snakker bare lit Norsk.

You are a very patient man. Any hints about fotos?

Kristen Andreassen left Glørud on 21 Dec 1853 with his sister Anneklikk her

Kristen married Anne Kristine Svendsdr on 10 Jan 1854 Edsbergklikk her

In Edsberg they had 2 sons Johan Arnt 5 Dec 1854klikk her og Anton Sigvardt on 11 May 1857klikk her both born Aasgardplads i Trømborg.

In the winter of 1858 Kristen and family return to Glørud Holtet #70-73klikk her

Johan Arnt Kristensen's first child Karl Ludvig is born on 4 Apr 1877 Glørudklikk her

Thank you so very much Egil. Everytime you answer I learn something new. I have some info on H E B's son Peter.

Peter married Oleana Andersdr of Nordbye i Os on 7 Nov 1829 # 37klikk her

Peter's family moved to Skibtvet 21 Aug 1832 #35-38klikk her

Peter's grandson Anton can be seen in 1900 census Vestby østre i Spydeberg using the Bakke nameklikk her
Peter Ladim is Anton's brother on same census record

Earlier you mentioned Christian Hansen to Brekke i Os Is this him? number 2-6 on the right pageklikk her

This is the birth record for the Christen Anton Christiansen #4 mentioned in the previous link here he is number 20 born 4 Febuary 1816 Hurum, Buskerudklikk her


I think this is his marriage number 22?klikk her
I think this is the record of his death number 90.klikk her

Do you think this could be Thor Hansen (Andreas's brother) number 52-57klikk her Thor Langerud???

Takk Eric

[gj08048]

Hei Egil

I found Peter Hansen's (Andreas's brother) wife Oleana Andersdr living on the Blekebakke farm i Skibtvedt i 1865 klikk her Peter's last child is born in 1841. So it would seem as though he died between 1841 and 1844 i Skibtvedt. I will look for that now.

Mange Takk for alle svarene Egil.

Eric

[dn20441]

More and more impressed by how much you find in these old, almost inlegible church records!

You certainly found brother CHRISTIAN HANSEN.
At marriage he has as best man FOGED GRUNDT. Acc. to E. Farm Hist. II (p. 75). He grew up in Foged Grundt's house at Lysaker, was trained as shoemaker, became petty officer and later manager at Brekke Bruk in Os. Responsible for the new Nes Lense (what is that in Engl...? timber (log) sorting ... ?) in 1853. (Much info to be found in var. sources about activities in 19th cent. at Brekke and the timber floating plants.)

The Rakkestad "immigrants" list 1827 also lists 3 children.

Not so sure about Thor Langerud.

All this work on the Hans Eliassen Bache/Brandsrud fam. hopefully can be justified by a proven identification of Andreas Hansen ....
The other Andreas candidate cannot yet be excluded ... ? But I think Andreas H. Brandsrud may be the more likely one.

My reasoning about Andreas' identity was (to some extent) based on the military and social connections. But appearantly the connection to the Berg farm is as much / mainly through Oline/Olea's background as a member (?) of the Fritzner household at Berg. At marriage she may be a servant at the Vethe farm (anyway staying there), and could for that reason also had married a "husmann's" son .... However, Oline/Olea may also have a middle / upper class background - apart from her Fritzner connection.

We found her living with parents in "Opslo" in 1801.
(Opslo being a "fancy" spelling for Oslo, as was still the old city name used for "Gamlebyen" - after the moving and rebuilding of the capital as Christiania after fire in the 17th cent.)

Her christening in Oslo Domkirke, June, 21st, 1799 - top right, last col. & bott. former col.:

Kildeinformasjon: Oslo fylke, Oslo Domkirke, Ministerialbok nr. 5 (1787-1806), Fødte og døpte 1799, side 450-451.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-230

Note as goodparents "Lieutnant, Wiinhandler, Mad.(am), Jomfruerne ..." - indicating rather well off people. There seems to be a title for the father, but haven't dechiffered.

Is this the parents' marriage in Oslo Domkirke, Apr., 24, 1799 - bot. left ? (Short time before the daughter's birth!!!):

Kildeinformasjon: Oslo fylke, Oslo Domkirke, Ministerialbok nr. 5 (1787-1806), Ekteviede 1799, side 112-113.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-61

Note the family name KIELLAND, a rather upper class fam. name - but maybe also a farm name indicating nothing about class.

There might be more about this couple in "Lysningprotokoll" if we can find their "lysning".

Egil

[dn20441]

If you want to follow up the "Opslo" family, it might be an idea to use this "chat":
http://da2.uib.no/cgi-win/WebDebatt.exe ... att=brukar

(Found in Digitalarkivet by clicking Debattforuma - left menue, then selecting brukarforum - 2nd point item)

Some very well informed Oslo historians to be found there.

You had a question about uploading files/photos.
Bottom of message composing window:
Select: Velg fil
Then click: Legg til et vedlegg

Found that my fam. has a conn. to Brandsrud some years before/after 1900 through a distant fam. branch. A son at Holt (Berg E. neighbor) bought the state part - the former captain's farm I guess. And this fam. had that farm for a couple of generations - till 1914.
This Holt son was a descendant of Smerkerud & Bøli E. people - as my father.
All these farms, Holt, Smerkerud, Bøli more or less in the same neighborhood as Berg E.

The son returning to Glørudholtet lived there at the same time (?) as my father's father grew up at Glørud, from 1872. Later, my father's mother's family took over at Glørud in 1892.

Egil

[gj08048]

Hei Egil

Takk for hjelpe



Hva betyr de øre tipp-oldefar? Jeg vet bestefar og oldefar.



Takk Eric

[gj08048]

Takk Egil for hjelpe med Olea og hun foraldre.

I had consigned myself to the fact she was an orphan. Her history to be lost to time, but wait, what is that in the sky? Is it a bird? no. Is it a plane? no. It is SUPER EGIL!!!!!

You have been so much help. And taught me much about the local history also. I have been in sensory overload since your first post and am still trying to absorb all of this info.

And yes it is a short time between marriage and birth. They barely had time for the honeymoon! It looks like Olea was born 10 May.

Takk

[dn20441]

Quite sure this photo must have been taken by the upper or lover mill dam at Brattfoss. People are dressed in Sunday (town) clothes. Can't be far into the "Fjella".

Attaching a new photo of Brattfoss from the book "FJELLA i Indre Østfold" by Svein Syversen (2005) and 2 small maps showing Holtet and Brattfoss.

The book also have some text that might interst you. I'll try to scan it. And you then can test your Norwegian

Tipp-oldemor = great-grandmother, tipp-tipp-oldemor = great-great-grandmother etc.

Egil

[dn20441]

Eric,

Is this possible to read? If not I can try a better quality scan, but much "heavier" ....

Do you understand anything at all?

I'm glad I can be of some help. Learning about my own family also at the same time....

Egil

[gj08048]

When I saw your photo of Brattfoss I thought the house in the center looked like this one

[gj08048]

Takk Takk Takkk!!!!!

I will learn to read it!!!!
Can you send the preceeding page???

One sentence seemed quite interesting "Da hadde det vært sagbruksdrift i over 250 år på Brattfoss". Hva betyr det?

I knew Hans Thøger's familien used Foss name. Now I know Ole's children may have used it as well. Hans Thøger Kristensen Foss was in Mass. USA i 1890. This is where his first son is born. But the family is back in Norge by 1893 according to the 1900 Census.

Ole's wife Karen Regine is Oline Sophie's little sister. Ole is Johan Arnt's little brother.

Takk

[dn20441]

Olea (or Oline) may very well have been an orphan when she came to Berg.
There were hard times in Norway during the last years of the Napoleonic wars with English blockade and bad harvests. Many starved and died. Especially in 1812 (I think).

Nothing more to be found about the parents in the Domkirken church records although their (supposed) "trolovelse", "lysning" & "vielse" are mentioned 3 times ...

In the 1801 census there are 3 Kielland farms; only the one in Sogndalen (near Flekkefjord) has names that are a bit similar to Jens Olsen. A connection?

Egil

[dn20441]

2 pictures - the preceding page of the text, and a tombstone from Trømborg centary.

Is this the Ole Foss of your family? Then why Ole. A. Foss?

[gj08048]

Hei Egil

In the climate change/global warming debate they refer to the time around 1814 as a miniature ice-age.
Plus the war with Sweden. I recall reading somewhere Rakkestad held out against Sweden when the rest of S.E. Norge fell. Any truth to this? (Tro det du? ,eller Du tro det?, eller Noe tro det? Jeg vet ikke.)

Takk Eric

[gj08048]

Hei Egil

The headstone is not my uncle. I found this person in the eidsberg archives Ole Anton son of Anders Davidsen or Danielsen and Brite Olsdr Foss plads.klikk her number 170.

Takk for the other page.

Eric

[gj08048]

Hei Egil

Looking for Jens Olsen at the Kielland farm you mentioned. Came across Magnus Christian born 15 Aug to a Johan Fritzner. I think this Johan is Capt. Niels Heide Dorph von Fritzner's father. Coincidence?
klikk her

Next page is Peter Olsen Kielland born 9 July. There is a Maj. Fritzner, and a Smith. Names are similar to Olea Jensdr's info which you found.klikk her

Below Peter is one of the Smith children.

And here is Lars Olsen 16 Aug 1772. Mentions a Jacob Jacobsen Smith and a Jens Stephensen.klikk her

Ole Larsen m. Berte Stephensdr 21 Feb 1772. Berte was m. before. Family search says Ole born in 1714? Connections between Kielland and Boe also Between Fritzner, Smith, and Kielland.

I have to help my sister move for at least two days but will check back as soon as possible

Takk Eric

[dn20441]

Hei!

I'm afraid it will need some (extensive) research on primary sources to find out more about Olea (Oline) and her parents. But not impossible. And some people in one of the family research disc. fora might have knowledge or acces to sources about this family.

Your discovery about connections Kielland / Fritzner in Sogndal around the time Jens O. Kielland must have been born, is very interesting. There could be some links betw. Oleas fam. and the Fritzner fam. there - explaining how Olea came to the Fritzners in Eidsberg. But that link is still to be found.

The parents of Lars Olsen Kielland do not seem to have had a son Jens (?). Sons Lars, Peter and Peder can be found.

The godparent Fritzner is Mad.(am) Fritzner (not major), the vicar's wife. This is, together with other indications, seems to explain an "upper class" status of this Kielland fam. in Sogndal.

Johan Fritzner died as "prost" in Fana outside Bergen. His grave to be found here in dis.no.
Census 1801:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/We ... erk=1#ovre

The son Niels is unfortunately not "our" Niels.

The "prost" may, however, be an uncle. Certainly quite close (?) family - note the names Niels and Otho ...

Here is "our" Niels (Dorp - No. 2127) with his widow mother in Christiania in 1801:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/We ... =2126#ovre

Text about Berg E. in the E. Farm Hist. gives these facts about this Capt. Fritzner: born 1783, parents capt. Otto Andreas Fritzner and Sara Maria Hageman(n). At the Norw. Milit. Institute, Chr.ania, 1794-1801.

The Fritzners are a fam. of priests and officers. There was also a lieut.-conol Fritzner in Eidsberg around the same time (at Elvestad). Also the middle names Dorph and Heide I think are from families of clergy.

After retiring from mil. service, Capt. Niels Fritzner became "Overtollbetjent" (customs officer) in Arendal:
http://www.genealogi.no/kilder/Tollere/c-f.htm

Egil

[gj08048]

Hei Egil

Once again you prove yourself to be a wealth of information. Silly me, I was looking for a Niels Fritzner. I must apologize for dragging you half-way across Norge.

Back in Eidsberg

I think I can read the history which you scanned for me. Please, tell me if I am right.

Early history

From homested to self standing business

In the census for 1801 it says Brattfoss is a homested - with Gunder Gundersen as head of house and owner of land. He is 38 years old and married with Mari Gundersdatter. They have a son Arne, 5 years old, and a "minstmann" (minor man?) Ole 1 year old. They are not "oppgitt" (related?) to the farm which Gunder works for as a house man.

In the census of 1865 lives Johan Kristoffersen at Brattfoss together with his spouse Karen Mathiesdatter. For assets they have 2 cows and 1 pig. Johan has the title of farmer and soldier. Brattfoss is at this time a self standing business, but "det ligger fortsatt" (stays?) a homested with the same name until-- where Kristen Nilsen costructed a house on his land.

In 1875 Kristen Andreassen a farmer at Brattfoss, born 11 Apr 1823 in Eidsberg. Spouse's name Anne Kristine Svendsdatter. The sons Ole Kristian and Hans Thøger are both born at Glørudholtet- due south of Brattfoss- in Rakkestad county. They are "oppgitt"(related?) that Kristen is a landowner, farmer, and he owns a saw. There has been a saw mill business for over 250 years at Brattfoss.

Ole Kristian Kristensen Brattfoss

Ole Foss

The son of Anne Kristine and Kristen- Ole Kristian- took over Brattfoss and married himself with Karen Regine Larsdatter. The census for 1891 says Ole Kristian Kristensen Brattfoss is the owner of a Millworks. This mill at Brattfoss was probably built in 1886. He writes after this time his singular name Ole Foss. From the records of 80 years of jubilee Ole Foss in Eidsberg newspaper 9 August 1939 know that he was born at Glørudholtet with parents from Aremark: Kristen Andreassen and Anne Kristine. They inform that travelled the isthmus "både" (between?) Glørudholtet and Brattfoss with saw and mill works.

Ole Foss spent his childhood at Glørudholtet and later at Brattfoss, where he worked in his younger years travelling to saw and millworks.

He took over the Brattfoss business at 27 years old in 1886 and ran it until 1902-03. In this time he built a new mill and remodeled it. He was the treadmill man in the family who ran Brattfoss. In 1903 he bought a place at Glørudholtet and ran a farm there for 2 years.

In the newspaper article of his 80 years of jubilee the question is asked "How he came to run a mill at Brattfoss? and Ole Foss answers;

The work. For such a little millwork as I had at Brattfoss, never did I need to hire any help. It would "malta betalte" (pay the bills?) without any money. It paid with grinding. 8 pots of 100kg flour regularly. Then sold the flour for money in Fredrickstad or Oslo. For a "skippund" of flour I received 12-13 Kr.. I am not certain the people now are more satisfied now then we were then. The demands can say to get too big, that people have difficulty in being satisfied. I believe people could live happier with more contentment and a little more peacefulness.

If this is not right please let me know. I hope it is close. Some words I think are spelled in an old-fashioned way and I cannot find them in my dictionary. "malte betalte og oppgitt".

Mange Takk

Eric

Do you recognize this bridge?

[dn20441]

Hello again, Eric,

No, sorry, I don’t recognise the bridge

Good translation. The mistakes don’t disturb the understanding of the text too much.
You have used the dictionary for some verbs in past sense etc.... E.g.: ei(e)-de = owned, mal(e)-te = grinded, far-en = THE father.
I don’t agree with the transl. of ”husmannsplass”. It might be better to use CROFTER for ”husmann” and CROFT or maybe COTTAGE for husmannsplass. In Scotland they had ”cottar(er)s”, and that’s equivalent to the ”husmann”-system in Norway. The point being that the ”husm.plass” was held on lease from the farm where it was located. It was not owned by the ”husmann” who paid the rent with labour on the main farm. On the croft they usually had the right to farm a small piece of land.

Some suggestions:

“From (homested) CROFT to self owned farm

In the census for 1801 it says Brattfoss is a CROFT - with Gunder Gundersen as CROFTER WITH LAND . He is 38 years old and married with Mari Gundersdatter. They have a son Arne, 5 years old, and a ("minstmann") YOUNGEST ONE, Ole 1 year old. IT IS NOT NOTED AT WHICH farm Gunder SERVES AS A CROFTER.
(Here the author is mistaken. Census 1801 clearly shows him to be a crofter at Rud N. in Trømborg. http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/we ... k=221#ovre)

In the census of 1865 lives Johan Kristoffersen at Brattfoss together with his spouse Karen Mathiesdatter. For assets they have 2 cows and 1 SHEEP. Johan has the title of farmer and SELF OWNER. Brattfoss is at this time a self standing FARM, but THERE STILL IS A CROFT with the same name until-- where Kristen Nilsen IS NOTED AS CROFTER.

In 1875 Kristen Andreassen IS THE farmer at Brattfoss, born 11 Apr 1823 in Eidsberg. Spouse's name Anne Kristine Svendsdatter. The sons Ole Kristian and Hans Thøger are both born at Glørudholtet- due south of Brattfoss- in Rakkestad MUNICIPALITY. IT IS NOTED that Kristen is a landowner, farmer, and he owns a saw. There has been a saw mill business for over 250 years at Brattfoss AT THAT TIME.

Ole Kristian Kristensen Brattfoss
Ole Foss
The son of Anne Kristine and Kristen- Ole Kristian- took over Brattfoss and married Karen Regine Larsdatter. The census for 1891 says Ole Kristian Kristensen Brattfoss is the owner of a Millworks. This mill at Brattfoss was probably built in 1886. He writes after this time his singular name Ole Foss. From the records of 80 years of jubilee Ole Foss in Eidsberg newspaper 9 August 1939: that he was born at Glørudholtet with parents from Aremark: Kristen Andreassen and Anne Kristine. IT IS TOLD THAT THE FATHER OWNED BOTH Glørudholtet and Brattfoss with saw and mill works.

Ole Foss spent his childhood at Glørudholtet and later at Brattfoss, where he worked in his younger years FOR HIS FATHER AT THE saw and millworks.

He took over the Brattfoss business at 27 years old in 1886 and ran it until 1902-03. In this time he built a new mill and remodeled (EQUIPPED) it. He was the THIRD man in the family who ran Brattfoss. In 1903 he bought a place at Glørudholtet and ran a farm there for 2 years.

In the newspaper article of his 80 years of jubilee the question is asked "How WAS IT to run a mill at Brattfoss? and Ole Foss answers;

A DRUDGERY ... (maybe too strong word ...?) For such a little millwork as I had at Brattfoss, never did I need to (COULD I (afford to)) hire any help. THOSE WHO CAME TO GRIND DIDN’T pay any money. THEY paid with FLOUR. 8 pots of 100kg flour regularly. Then sold the flour for money in Fredrickstad or Oslo. (I think the article is unclear here – Ole sold the flour he got as mill “rent”). For a "skippund" of flour I received 12-13 Kr.. I am not certain the people now are more satisfied now then we were then. The demands can say to get too big, that people have difficulty in being satisfied. I believe people could live happier with more contentment and a little more peacefulness.”

Hope this might add a little bit to the understanding.

Egil

[gj08048]

Hei igjen Egil

I just returned from a family gathering and you were much complimented there.

Your translation makes much more sense than mine!!!

I appreciate your attention to my search very much. It is also increasing my Norsk vocabulary. I have looked through your old searches to see if I could be of help to you, but so far nothing.

Are you related toTøger Anton Andreassen Glørud født 1848?

The KB look very different to me now. You have shed a great deal of light on them. Now that you have pointed out the peoples titles and farm connections I see so much more.

Might you have any information about Hans Eliasen Bakke or where he might come from?

Takk Eric

[dn20441]

I have been looking for more on Hans Eliasen Bakke's background, but not found much so far. Can't understand where his Bakke name is from. Think there is something somewhere about a link to Herland...? But where is Bakke in Herland? I know about a source with info. on people in the 1801 census in Eidsberg. Might be something there. But this is available only in the libraries in Mysen and Fredrikstad .....
His wife's background is easy. She is of the old Mysen S. family - and that can be traced back for centuries (some even would link it to the old Norwegian kings ..... but not proven, I think).

Tøger Anton Andreassen Glørud is my gr.mother's father (on my father's side). Came to Glørud 1892, after my gr.father's family. You find these gr.parents in 1900 here:

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/we ... =4015#ovre

I am searching for more info. about Thøger's gr.mother Else Rasmusdatter Glomsrud.

Egil

[gj08048]

Hei Egil

Kanskje jeg har noe til deg.

Karl August Thøgersen født i 1884 være gift med Alma Olsen født 29 Apr 1893 i Minnesota og dødt 18 Jun 1989 i California.

Derre barne

Edna Pauline Glorud født 19 Nov 1915 i Minnesota og dødt 14 Jun 2008 i California

Dorothy Glorud født <1919> i Nordre Dakota

Ruth Glorud født 9 Nov 1923 i California

Anne Mae Lois Glorud født 30 Jul 1926 i California

Carl August Glorud født 19 Sep 1928 i California og dødt 2 Nov 2004 i California
Han være gift med Cecilia H. Alvarez 14 Mai 1977 i Los Angeles, California.

Jeg håpe du finne denne interessant og jeg håpe Norsk min er riktig.

Hva betyr Mvh?

Takk Eric

[dn20441]

Tusen takk, Eric!

Fin norsk!
Dette var absolutt noen nye opplysninger for meg!

Visste ikke at Edna var død i fjor. Og familenavnet til Carls kone visste jeg heller ikke.
Med Ednas død er visst den siste med etternavnet Glorud i USA død

Carl og søstre, min fars søskenbarn, var på besøk på Mysen etc. et par ganger før far døde.
Min bror har besøkt dem i California.

Jeg mangler mye om etterkommerne deres. Har vel stort sett navnene til neste generasjon (barn til Carl jr.'s søstre), men lite mer.

Ang. vår slekt ellers har vi også en del "hull" når det gjelder vår farfars halv-søsken Marie Glørud, til USA 1901, og Johannes Glørud, til USA 1904.
Vår farfars hel-søster, Annette, vet vi en del om, bl.a. at hun døde som Annette G. Taggart i Washington state, 1948.

Håper ikke norsken-en var for vanskelig .... ?

Egil

[dn20441]

mvh = med vennlig hilsen

mvh Egil

[gj08048]

Hei Egil

Det er lit vanskelig, men jeg må lære å snakker norsk hvis jeg vil reisse dar.

Hva er Marie's fars navn? Og Annette's fars navn også? Vet du hvem O H Glørud møbelsnekker er? Alle bor i Multnomah, Oregon

Takk for hjelpe Eric

Mvh

[dn20441]

Hei!

O. H. Glørud = min farfar. Ble kjøpmann (landhandler) i Trømborg etter sin USA-tur. Bodde hos sin søster Annette i Portland, ca. 1890.

Alle disse personene er søsken (men ikke samme mor). Faren het Halvor Gudmundsen.

Skal undersøke hva jeg har mer info. om deres immigrasjon. Har noe fra ellisisland.org.

Også en sønn av en annen søster til O. H. G. reiste til Portland. Han var visst skomaker.

Egil

[dn20441]

What I have on some of these persons:

Marie Halvorsen (Halvorsdtr. Glørud) to USA with her cousin Johanne and Johanne's son to New York (Brooklyn ?) in 1901 (5-7 in attachment).
Johanne was married in USA, but don't have husband's full name. Johanne died in 1906 and is buried in Trømborg.

About Annette I have her listed as servant in the Lang (?) family in Portland in 1900. She was later married and died as Mrs. Taggart in Goldendale (?), Washington.
She MAY even earlier have been married Mrs. Douglas .....

2 att.

Egil