Peder Thoresen Mengshoel

[gj23221]

Hi,

I am trying to find any information and parents on Pedser Thoresen Mengshoel. He moved from Hedmark to Oppland before 1826. I have also posted this name in the Oppland - Land Slektsforum in the hope I can discover what happened to this man after the birth of his illegitimate daughter named Gunda there (she was born 28 Jan 1850 in Nordre Land, Oppland). I do not think he married Guri Evensdatter, who was Gunda's mother. His daughter Gunda's christening record states her father as Peder Thoresen from Mengshoel via Naes, Hedemarken.

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... x_side=-18

Is anyone able to help with this name and farm please? I estimated his birth year as ca 1825 due to Guri being born 1826, but this could be very wrong.

Thankyou,

Kymm

[dn05604]

Hello down under...(Australia).
This is needle in a big haystack. Do not have any age on him.
There is no Peder Thoresen born on the farm Mengshoel but there is a Peder Thorsen born 1826 Gjestvangeie but he lived at Mengshoelstua nordre ( a cotters place) because a sister was born there 1829. Problem: This peder married on Nes 1850..
I do not have any Peder Thoresen mooving out of Nes to Land..
There is a Peder Thorsen born 1790 on Balstad but he married on Nes 1828.
There is a Peder Thorsen born 1789 on Bye. He is here in 1801. Cannot find him as dead on nes..
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft ... 8233000202

[gj23221]

Thankyou for replying!! Yes this is a needle in a haystack!! I wonder about a number of things here. Guri ended up marrying an Ole Olsen who was 20 years older than her and both the 1865 and 1875 censuses do not refer to her as having been married before, but she has moved to Birid in Oppland. I have been unable to locate any record of Guri marrying Peder Thoresen. I found a christening record for a Lise Andersdatter in Nes on 16 May 1853 where a Peder Thoresen Mengshoel is cited as a godparent along with his wife. I also found a Peder Mengshoel who married an Inger Gundersdatter. I do not know if this is the same Peder. I wonder whether he returned to Nes before Gunda was born. Gunda has him named as father on her marriage record but in the 1865 census Gunda is living in Birid, Oppland as a servant so is living with neither parent. Gunda and her husband immigrated to Norsewood in New Zealand.

Thankyou once again for your help

Kymm

[gj23221]

Hi again,

I did find a Peder Thorsen in Land in the 1865 census married to Hellen Gulbrandsdatter and they had 6 children. Peder, Hellen and the 2 eldest children were born in Nes, Hedmark. A daughter named Caroline was born in 1850.
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft ... 8054000507
I wonder if this could be the same Peder?
Kymm

[dn05604]

Where and when did you find Peder Thoresen Mengshoel married to Inger GUndersdatter?

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

Peder Thoresen Mængshoel married 1850 (no. 21)

Kildeinformasjon: Hedmark fylke, Nes, Ministerialbok nr. 3 (1827-1851), Ekteviede 1850-1851, side 455.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-320
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 050401.jpg

Baptism no 33, 1826

Kildeinformasjon: Hedmark fylke, Nes, Ministerialbok nr. 2 (1813-1827), Fødte og døpte 1826, side 366-367.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?i ... _side=-178
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1 ... 040694.jpg

I believe this is the right Peder.

In 1865 living in Gjøvik: http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft ... 8054000507

Tove DJ

[gj23221]

Hi,

Family Search had an entry :
Norway, Select Burials, 1666-1927 (in Norwegian)
Birth, Marriage & Death
Name: Peter Mengshoel
Spouse: Inger Gundersdatter

(I do not know if his surname is Thorsen however, nor do I know year of marriage).

I am beginning to think that the Peder Thoresen Mengshoel who married Hellen Gulbrandsdatter could be the same person cited as Gunda Pedersdatter's father ( her mother is Guri Evensdatter). It seems a coincidence that a Peder Thoresen Mengshoel from Nes in Hedemarken can be quoted on Gunda Pedersdatter christening record and that there is a Peder Thorsen born 1826 Gjestvangeie who had brothers and sisters born in Mengshoel (both before and after his own birth as the oldest child was born Mengshoeleie, the next child was born in Senstadeie,then Peter was born in Gjestvangeie, and then 4 more siblings were born in Mengsholeie . This Peder lived at Mengshoelstua nordre because a sister was born there in 1829 - (that sister being Ingeborg). This Peder Thoresen married Hellen Gulbrandsdatter in Nes in 1850 and then after having 2 children in Nes suddenly turns up living in Oppland in the 1865 census. I think he may have gone to Oppland ca 1848/9, had a fling with Guri while there, returned home to Nes prior to the birth of Gunda, got married to Hellen, had 2 children and then went back to Oppland later (Not the same region as Guri!!!), had 4 more children and then immigrated to USA. Also with regard to Gunda she was born in Land, Oppland on January 28 1850 so that still left 11 months for another child to be born to another mother within that year!! in saying this, Caroline Pedersdatter was actually born 12 Nov 1850 at Mengshoel, Nes!!

Census year: 1865
Municipality: Gjøvik
Municipality number: 0502
Street name: Qvartal 77
Street number: 2
City district:
House owner:
Number of flats: 1
Number of persons in this domicile: 8
Name Family status Marital status Occupation Birth year Place of birth Ethnicity
Peder Thorsen Husfader g Snedker 1826 Næss Hedemarken
Hellene Gulbrandsdatter Husmoder g 1827 Næss Hedemarken
Caroline Pedersdatter Datter ug 1850 Næss Hedemarken
Gulbrand Pedersen Søn ug 1852 Næss Hedemarken
Marthinus Pedersen Søn ug 1857 Wardal
Petter Pedersen Søn ug 1859 Wardal
Theodor Pedersen Søn ug 1861 Gjøvik
Hans Pedersen Søn ug 1863 Gjøvik

What do others think?

Kymm

[gj23221]

Hi Tove

Thank you so much for all that info!! I actually do believe this is the right person unless Guri was telling fibs!!

Kymm

[dn05604]

Yes, I mentioned him before, born April 19 bapt. May 15, 1826 Gjestvangeie.
Parents; Thor Johnsen and Karie Pedersdatter. It seems to be this Peder Thorsen but I cannot proove it.

[gj23221]

Thankyou everyone!! Very much appreciated. I really do believe one of my brick-walls has been broken down

Kymm

[Tove Dahl Johansen]

We may not be able to prove it, but it seems very, very probable this is the right Peder. - Tove DJ

[dn05604]

This Peder Thorsen can be tracked back to just before 1700. His wife, Hellene Gulbrandsdattewr can be tracked back to 1600.

[gj23221]

That's further than I have managed to go so far!!
I have only managed to track him back to his grandmother Maren Svendsdatter through the 1801 census by finding his father Thor Joensen aged 9. They were living on farm Grefseng in Nes. Thor had an older sister Marthe living with him and his mum also. Does not state that Maren is widowed, but her husband is not present in the census. I did see someone on the internet had Thor Joensen's parents as Joen Thoresen and Mari Svendsdatter but unable to find anything to verify this. Maren Svendsdatter was born ca 1749 calculated from her age on the 1801 census.
As for Peder Thoresen's mother Karen Pedersdatter I think her parents were Peder Rasmussen born ca 1762 and Idde Hansdatter born ca 1753 but have been unable to find them anywhere other then the 1801 census living on farm Senstad in Nes.

Kymm

[dn05604]

Joen Thoresen (John Thoresen) is living on Senstad in 1801 as a servant so Mari is not a widow.
John died 1818 and Mari died 1802.
Karen (Kari) Pedersdatter 1793 was not born on Nes, parents not married on Nes, not born on Nes, They must have mooved to Nes but there is no reg. so early so I do not know where they came from.