I was able to visit the City Archives of Bruges recently and have
since corresponded with staff of the archive regarding Thomas Molyneux
and his wife. I have been able to collect the following information,
which I am sure will be of great interest to anyone who has read
Oxford University's 'Dictionary of National Biography' entry for
Thomas Molyneux, particularly in relation to the identity of his wife,
'Catherine Stabeort, daughter of an opulent burgomaster'.
Thomas Molinet, an English merchant, born in Calais, established
himself in Bruges in about 1560. He married the sister of the
Calvinist cloth merchant, Godefroid Slabbaert. (Ludo Vandamme, 'De
socio-professionele recutering van de reformatie te Brugge,
1566-1567' (PhD thesis), Katholieke Universiteit te Leuven, Leuven,
1982.)
Thomas Molinel, "anglus" [Englishman], married Catharine Slabbaert in
the Parish of Our Lady, Bruges, in 1565.
The baptisms of two children of Thomas Molinel in the Parish of Our
Lady appear in 'Pariochieregisters Brugge, Geboorten 1565-1600' on
page 156:
Catharina Molinet, baptised 12 July 1572 at O.L.Vr.2de
Thomas Molinet, baptised 02 April 1574 at O.L.Vr.2de
The baptisms of Daniel, Samuel and Alicia are not listed in this
register for the period 1565-1600.
Thomas Molinel/Molinet, silk and hops trader, is mentioned three times
in the City Archives list of law suits :
1569: "Joos van Grijspere c. Thomas Molinel", 1180/26/1569
1569: "Ghysbrecht de Sluutere c. Thomas Molinel, Jan van Heede",
"Thomas Molinel was een Engelse zijdehandelaar." 1192/26/1569
1570: "Molinet, vanden Heede", 1320/28/1570
He is also mentioned in the survey of civil sentences: on 09 February
1563 he asks his agent, Matheeus de Queestere, to plead for him in
Antwerp in a dispute against Anthoine le Couvreur.
Catharine's father, Ludovic, does not appear in the list of
burgomasters or aldermen of Bruges for the period 1530-1580, however
it does seem that he was an important figure in the cloth trade in
Bruges. In a list of committee members of the cloth crafts, Ludovic
Slabbaert is mentioned several times as "dean". Also:
"Half March 1563 he [Godefroot Slabbaert] became a member of the cloth
cutters craft, in which his father Loys was engaged for years and
years. Loys (Ludovic) died between May 1563 and May 1564. Both
brothers of Godefroot, Loys and Adriaen, were also members of this
craft and even his sister Catharine, as wife of the English
Calvinistic merchant Thomas Molinet, was a member of the same
professional environment." (Email from the City of Bruges Archive
citing Ludo Vandamme's licentiate's thesis about the Calvinistic
period in Bruges (1566-1584).)
In another article by Ludo Vandamme ('Calvinisme in het Brugse
koopmansmilieu: het consistorielid Godefroot Slabbaert") mention is
made of Thomas Molinet: born in Calais and settled in Bruges in 1560,
he was a convinced Calvinist, lived in a large house on the Djiver (an
important street in the middle of Bruges) and carried on trade with
France, England and the Baltic countries.
Finally, in the City Archives 'notarial documents' for the period
1563-1565 mention a Ludovic Slabbaert, married to Adriane Cobrysse
with four children: Adriaen, Louis, Catheline and Godefroit.
Ludovic's second wife was Godelieve Wouters. This would appear to be
Catharine Slabbaert with her three brothers and parents, though it is
not proven.
I have more information from the archive but it is in Flemish, so if
anyone can assist with translation, please let me know. And if anyone
gets the chance to visit Bruges, maybe we can follow up some of this
information and seek out further sources.
Regards, Jan.
Thomas Molyneux and Catharine Slabbaert
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Thomas Molyneux and Catharine Slabbaert
Dear Jan,
This is very interesting and I am glad you brought this up
Thomas and Catharine are interesting as they are also ancestors of Prince
Charles. Gerald Paget in his huge work on the ancestors of Prince Charles
calls Catherine's father Ludovic Salaboerte, Governor of Bruges.
I hope you can find proof about the mother of Catharine, to me it sounds
pretty good and believable.
With best wishes
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:43 AM
Subject: Thomas Molyneux and Catharine Slabbaert
This is very interesting and I am glad you brought this up
Thomas and Catharine are interesting as they are also ancestors of Prince
Charles. Gerald Paget in his huge work on the ancestors of Prince Charles
calls Catherine's father Ludovic Salaboerte, Governor of Bruges.
I hope you can find proof about the mother of Catharine, to me it sounds
pretty good and believable.
With best wishes
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:43 AM
Subject: Thomas Molyneux and Catharine Slabbaert
I was able to visit the City Archives of Bruges recently and have
since corresponded with staff of the archive regarding Thomas Molyneux
and his wife. I have been able to collect the following information,
which I am sure will be of great interest to anyone who has read
Oxford University's 'Dictionary of National Biography' entry for
Thomas Molyneux, particularly in relation to the identity of his wife,
'Catherine Stabeort, daughter of an opulent burgomaster'.
Thomas Molinet, an English merchant, born in Calais, established
himself in Bruges in about 1560. He married the sister of the
Calvinist cloth merchant, Godefroid Slabbaert. (Ludo Vandamme, 'De
socio-professionele recutering van de reformatie te Brugge,
1566-1567' (PhD thesis), Katholieke Universiteit te Leuven, Leuven,
1982.)
Thomas Molinel, "anglus" [Englishman], married Catharine Slabbaert in
the Parish of Our Lady, Bruges, in 1565.
The baptisms of two children of Thomas Molinel in the Parish of Our
Lady appear in 'Pariochieregisters Brugge, Geboorten 1565-1600' on
page 156:
Catharina Molinet, baptised 12 July 1572 at O.L.Vr.2de
Thomas Molinet, baptised 02 April 1574 at O.L.Vr.2de
The baptisms of Daniel, Samuel and Alicia are not listed in this
register for the period 1565-1600.
Thomas Molinel/Molinet, silk and hops trader, is mentioned three times
in the City Archives list of law suits :
1569: "Joos van Grijspere c. Thomas Molinel", 1180/26/1569
1569: "Ghysbrecht de Sluutere c. Thomas Molinel, Jan van Heede",
"Thomas Molinel was een Engelse zijdehandelaar." 1192/26/1569
1570: "Molinet, vanden Heede", 1320/28/1570
He is also mentioned in the survey of civil sentences: on 09 February
1563 he asks his agent, Matheeus de Queestere, to plead for him in
Antwerp in a dispute against Anthoine le Couvreur.
Catharine's father, Ludovic, does not appear in the list of
burgomasters or aldermen of Bruges for the period 1530-1580, however
it does seem that he was an important figure in the cloth trade in
Bruges. In a list of committee members of the cloth crafts, Ludovic
Slabbaert is mentioned several times as "dean". Also:
"Half March 1563 he [Godefroot Slabbaert] became a member of the cloth
cutters craft, in which his father Loys was engaged for years and
years. Loys (Ludovic) died between May 1563 and May 1564. Both
brothers of Godefroot, Loys and Adriaen, were also members of this
craft and even his sister Catharine, as wife of the English
Calvinistic merchant Thomas Molinet, was a member of the same
professional environment." (Email from the City of Bruges Archive
citing Ludo Vandamme's licentiate's thesis about the Calvinistic
period in Bruges (1566-1584).)
In another article by Ludo Vandamme ('Calvinisme in het Brugse
koopmansmilieu: het consistorielid Godefroot Slabbaert") mention is
made of Thomas Molinet: born in Calais and settled in Bruges in 1560,
he was a convinced Calvinist, lived in a large house on the Djiver (an
important street in the middle of Bruges) and carried on trade with
France, England and the Baltic countries.
Finally, in the City Archives 'notarial documents' for the period
1563-1565 mention a Ludovic Slabbaert, married to Adriane Cobrysse
with four children: Adriaen, Louis, Catheline and Godefroit.
Ludovic's second wife was Godelieve Wouters. This would appear to be
Catharine Slabbaert with her three brothers and parents, though it is
not proven.
I have more information from the archive but it is in Flemish, so if
anyone can assist with translation, please let me know. And if anyone
gets the chance to visit Bruges, maybe we can follow up some of this
information and seek out further sources.
Regards, Jan.
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.16/1251 - Release Date:
1/30/2008 9:29 AM
-
suthen
Re: Thomas Molyneux and Catharine Slabbaert
I have researched Thomas Molyneux in past of hoping to see where he
might possibly fit into the Sefton, Lancashire family, but I have
never seen anything except guesses as to his placement.
What is most interesting is that this is not the only example of what
became an Irish family descending from a Belgian marriage. Ridgeley
Hatfield, Mayor of Dublin was married to Abigail (d. 1656), daughter
of John or Jan Bollardt of Antwerp. They had nine children including
Anne (d. 1688), wife of Henry St. George, M. P. for Roscommon
(1638-1723). Curiously their son Rev. Arthur St. George (1681-1772)
married Jane Molyneux of Castle Dillon, great-great granddaughter of
Thomas and Catherine/Katherine Molyneux from the first message.
HS
might possibly fit into the Sefton, Lancashire family, but I have
never seen anything except guesses as to his placement.
What is most interesting is that this is not the only example of what
became an Irish family descending from a Belgian marriage. Ridgeley
Hatfield, Mayor of Dublin was married to Abigail (d. 1656), daughter
of John or Jan Bollardt of Antwerp. They had nine children including
Anne (d. 1688), wife of Henry St. George, M. P. for Roscommon
(1638-1723). Curiously their son Rev. Arthur St. George (1681-1772)
married Jane Molyneux of Castle Dillon, great-great granddaughter of
Thomas and Catherine/Katherine Molyneux from the first message.
HS
-
Gjest
Re: Thomas Molyneux and Catharine Slabbaert
On 30 Jan, 23:16, wjhonson <[email protected]> wrote:
I didn't mention Gisborne Molineux in my original post as all the
standard sources on Thomas Molyneux pretty much agree in stating that
Thomas Molyneux married Catherine Salaboerte/Stabeort/Stabcort who was
the daughter of Ludovic, either a burgomaster or governor of Bruges.
When I visited the City Archives in Bruges, I didn't expect to find
any information on Thomas Molyneux so initially asked about 'Ludovic
Salaboerte', thinking that as he was obviously someone of importance,
he may have been mentioned in some records, particularly those
relating to the Stadhuis (Town Hall) and its aldermen and
burgomasters. Initially my enquiries drew a blank as I was informed
that Salaboerte is not a Flemish name and does not appear in any
documents at the archive. However, once I gave more information about
Catharine's English husband Thomas Molyneux, this rang a bell for the
archivist and he was able to locate Ludo Vandamme's PhD thesis which
states, on page 228, under the subheading 'Thomas Molinet', that he
was an English merchant, born in Calais, who arrived in Bruges in
about 1560 and married the sister of the Calvinist [Protestant] cloth
merchant Godefroid Slabbaert. This led on to finding the rest of the
information as outlined in my original post. Certainly Slabbaert is a
well-known name in Bruges history and if the first 'a' is deleted from
Salaboerte to become Slaboerte, it isn't hard to see how a mistake
could have been made in transcribing the name from old documents.
I have come across a website which I'm sure will be of interest:
http://www.regiobrugge.be/tourist/prote ... deling.php, which mentions
both Thomas Molinet and Godefroot Slabbaert. It is a Flemish article
outlining a walking tour taking in the sites relating to Protestant
history in Bruges. I have used the Google translation service to come
up with a rough translation but I'm afraid some sentences don't make
sense. I have inserted some words/ideas/suggestions of my own in
square brackets [ ]. I will attempt to try and improve the
translation in the next few days, but in the meantime here is the
relevant extract:
"We turn right at the corner and arrive at the Eiermarkt. The numbers
4 and 5, on the other side of the square, were the property of the
cloth merchant Godefroot Slabbaert. He was good at home in the
circles of the English wolhandelaars. His sister married even with
the influential English merchant, Thomas Molinet. Under his influence
Slabbaert stepped over to the new doctrine, and was even in the
turbulent 60s, [one] of the leading figures of Protestantism in
Bruges. The Council of Beroerten [Upheaval] continued Slabbaert
caught in the Bruges Steen, the former prison on the Burg, who at the
end of the walk to bid. Thanks to three of his friends he was able to
escape and fled to London but...his liberators were arrested and
geecuteerd [executed?]. [At] the restoration of Calvinism in 1578, he
was back in Brugge, but otherwise his life is vague. However, it is
certain that the names of the families Molinet and Slabbaert pop up in
Ireland at the end of the 16th century. The houses of Slabbaert in
those days [were] 't Beerken Great' and 'The Bear' and dated from the
15th century. The facades were in the 18th century drastically
cultivated [altered?], but the structural parts of [the] buildings are
still medieval."
The article appears to have been contributed by Mrs D. Constant-
Favorin, president of the Friends of the Protestant Church of Bruges.
I have emailed the church to see if I can make contact with her and
find out the sources of her information.
Chees, Jan.
I didn't mention Gisborne Molineux in my original post as all the
standard sources on Thomas Molyneux pretty much agree in stating that
Thomas Molyneux married Catherine Salaboerte/Stabeort/Stabcort who was
the daughter of Ludovic, either a burgomaster or governor of Bruges.
When I visited the City Archives in Bruges, I didn't expect to find
any information on Thomas Molyneux so initially asked about 'Ludovic
Salaboerte', thinking that as he was obviously someone of importance,
he may have been mentioned in some records, particularly those
relating to the Stadhuis (Town Hall) and its aldermen and
burgomasters. Initially my enquiries drew a blank as I was informed
that Salaboerte is not a Flemish name and does not appear in any
documents at the archive. However, once I gave more information about
Catharine's English husband Thomas Molyneux, this rang a bell for the
archivist and he was able to locate Ludo Vandamme's PhD thesis which
states, on page 228, under the subheading 'Thomas Molinet', that he
was an English merchant, born in Calais, who arrived in Bruges in
about 1560 and married the sister of the Calvinist [Protestant] cloth
merchant Godefroid Slabbaert. This led on to finding the rest of the
information as outlined in my original post. Certainly Slabbaert is a
well-known name in Bruges history and if the first 'a' is deleted from
Salaboerte to become Slaboerte, it isn't hard to see how a mistake
could have been made in transcribing the name from old documents.
I have come across a website which I'm sure will be of interest:
http://www.regiobrugge.be/tourist/prote ... deling.php, which mentions
both Thomas Molinet and Godefroot Slabbaert. It is a Flemish article
outlining a walking tour taking in the sites relating to Protestant
history in Bruges. I have used the Google translation service to come
up with a rough translation but I'm afraid some sentences don't make
sense. I have inserted some words/ideas/suggestions of my own in
square brackets [ ]. I will attempt to try and improve the
translation in the next few days, but in the meantime here is the
relevant extract:
"We turn right at the corner and arrive at the Eiermarkt. The numbers
4 and 5, on the other side of the square, were the property of the
cloth merchant Godefroot Slabbaert. He was good at home in the
circles of the English wolhandelaars. His sister married even with
the influential English merchant, Thomas Molinet. Under his influence
Slabbaert stepped over to the new doctrine, and was even in the
turbulent 60s, [one] of the leading figures of Protestantism in
Bruges. The Council of Beroerten [Upheaval] continued Slabbaert
caught in the Bruges Steen, the former prison on the Burg, who at the
end of the walk to bid. Thanks to three of his friends he was able to
escape and fled to London but...his liberators were arrested and
geecuteerd [executed?]. [At] the restoration of Calvinism in 1578, he
was back in Brugge, but otherwise his life is vague. However, it is
certain that the names of the families Molinet and Slabbaert pop up in
Ireland at the end of the 16th century. The houses of Slabbaert in
those days [were] 't Beerken Great' and 'The Bear' and dated from the
15th century. The facades were in the 18th century drastically
cultivated [altered?], but the structural parts of [the] buildings are
still medieval."
The article appears to have been contributed by Mrs D. Constant-
Favorin, president of the Friends of the Protestant Church of Bruges.
I have emailed the church to see if I can make contact with her and
find out the sources of her information.
Chees, Jan.