Weird census columns

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clifto

Weird census columns

Legg inn av clifto » 10. februar 2008 kl. 17.45

I just noticed. In the 1880 census, there are two columns, one for "Cannot
read" and one for "cannot write". What does it mean for a person to be able
to read but not to write? (And probably rhetorically, what about a person
who can write but not read?)

--
God help us all.
Because we're down to PIAPS, B. Hussein or McStain,
the next President of the United States can only be a liberal Democrat,

Michael Kenefick

Re: Weird census columns

Legg inn av Michael Kenefick » 10. februar 2008 kl. 18.08

They would only have a tick mark in one column. Mike in Ohio

clifto wrote:
I just noticed. In the 1880 census, there are two columns, one for "Cannot
read" and one for "cannot write". What does it mean for a person to be able
to read but not to write? (And probably rhetorically, what about a person
who can write but not read?)

Hugh Watkins

Re: Weird census columns

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 10. februar 2008 kl. 19.03

clifto wrote:
I just noticed. In the 1880 census, there are two columns, one for "Cannot
read" and one for "cannot write". What does it mean for a person to be able
to read but not to write?
I can read danish bu I can not write it very well


I read german french swedish icelandic faeroese but write none of them



who but(And probacan writebly rhetorically, what about a person who can write not read?

idiot!!!


children learn language by the natursal method
which follows a logical order

first listening then imitation . .
understanidng may precede speaking

as ascience student we were necouraged to read papers in any old
language and gte the gist of it

Hugh W


--
For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and
district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/

http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks

GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG

clifto

Re: Weird census columns

Legg inn av clifto » 10. februar 2008 kl. 19.34

Michael Kenefick wrote:
clifto wrote:
I just noticed. In the 1880 census, there are two columns, one for "Cannot
read" and one for "cannot write". What does it mean for a person to be able
to read but not to write? (And probably rhetorically, what about a person
who can write but not read?)

They would only have a tick mark in one column. Mike in Ohio

I have several people who have tick marks in both, and a few with a tick in
only the 'cannot write', thus my question.

--
God help us all.
Because we're down to PIAPS, B. Hussein or McStain,
the next President of the United States can only be a liberal Democrat,

Henry Brownlee

Re: Weird census columns

Legg inn av Henry Brownlee » 10. februar 2008 kl. 20.02

"Hugh Watkins" <hugh.watkins@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:618sjfF1ub10bU1@mid.individual.net...
| clifto wrote:
| > I just noticed. In the 1880 census, there are two columns, one for
"Cannot
| > read" and one for "cannot write". What does it mean for a person to be
able
| > to read but not to write?
| I can read danish bu I can not write it very well
|
| I read german french swedish icelandic faeroese but write none of them
|
|
|
| > who but(And probacan writebly rhetorically, what about a person who can
write not read?
|
| idiot!!!
|
|
| children learn language by the natursal method
| which follows a logical order
|
| first listening then imitation . .
| understanidng may precede speaking
|
| as ascience student we were necouraged to read papers in any old
| language and gte the gist of it
|
| Hugh W

Hugh,

I assume those were not typos above, but were designed to show us that we
could read even if someone could not (properly) write?

Henry

catalpa

Re: Weird census columns

Legg inn av catalpa » 10. februar 2008 kl. 20.19

"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2bm385-9uo.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
I just noticed. In the 1880 census, there are two columns, one for "Cannot
read" and one for "cannot write". What does it mean for a person to be
able
to read but not to write? (And probably rhetorically, what about a person
who can write but not read?)


Read and writing are related, but different skills. In the 19th and early
20th century many people never got past elementary school and could only
read poorly and write no more than their name. Thus being able to read, but
not write was common. If you don't learn to write, then you can't write.

Henry Brownlee

Re: Weird census columns

Legg inn av Henry Brownlee » 10. februar 2008 kl. 20.26

"catalpa" <catalpa@entertab.org> wrote in message
news:Q6Irj.1131$r03.551@trnddc08...
|
| "clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message
| news:2bm385-9uo.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
| >I just noticed. In the 1880 census, there are two columns, one for
"Cannot
| > read" and one for "cannot write". What does it mean for a person to be
| > able
| > to read but not to write? (And probably rhetorically, what about a
person
| > who can write but not read?)
| >
|
| Read and writing are related, but different skills. In the 19th and early
| 20th century many people never got past elementary school and could only
| read poorly and write no more than their name. Thus being able to read,
but
| not write was common. If you don't learn to write, then you can't write.

But how 'bout the other way around? Except for a physical handicap, how
would you be able to write without being able to read? I do not mean
physically holding a pen(cil) and scribbling characters, I mean writing
comprehensive sentences.

Henry

Unsprung

Re: Weird census columns

Legg inn av Unsprung » 10. februar 2008 kl. 23.39

Why, have you actually seen a case of someone who whose census record
suggests that they can write but not read? Or are you speaking
hypothetically?

P

"Henry Brownlee" <hfbrownl@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:UfIrj.83686$rc2.19150@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"catalpa" <catalpa@entertab.org> wrote in message
news:Q6Irj.1131$r03.551@trnddc08...
|
| "clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message
| news:2bm385-9uo.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
| >I just noticed. In the 1880 census, there are two columns, one for
"Cannot
| > read" and one for "cannot write". What does it mean for a person to be
| > able
| > to read but not to write? (And probably rhetorically, what about a
person
| > who can write but not read?)
|
|
| Read and writing are related, but different skills. In the 19th and
early
| 20th century many people never got past elementary school and could only
| read poorly and write no more than their name. Thus being able to read,
but
| not write was common. If you don't learn to write, then you can't write.

But how 'bout the other way around? Except for a physical handicap, how
would you be able to write without being able to read? I do not mean
physically holding a pen(cil) and scribbling characters, I mean writing
comprehensive sentences.

Henry

Steve Hayes

Re: Weird census columns

Legg inn av Steve Hayes » 11. februar 2008 kl. 1.24

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:39:46 -0500, "Unsprung" <peterblood666@joimail.com>
wrote:

Why, have you actually seen a case of someone who whose census record
suggests that they can write but not read? Or are you speaking
hypothetically?

It's hypothetically possible, since reading and writing use different areas of
the brain, and a person might suffer brain damage that impairs their reading
ability but not their writing ability. But such cases would be rare.


--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com (see web page if it doesn't work)
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/famhist1.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7783/

Huntersglenn

Re: Weird census columns

Legg inn av Huntersglenn » 11. februar 2008 kl. 3.47

Unsprung wrote:
Why, have you actually seen a case of someone who whose census record
suggests that they can write but not read? Or are you speaking
hypothetically?

I couldn't find the instructions for the 1880 Federal Census regarding

the columns (the , but in the 1890, this is what the enumerators were
told (the 1880 instructions were probably similar):

"Inquiries number 19 and 20 relate to illiteracy, and are to be made
only of or concerning persons 10 years of age or over.

19. Able to read.—Write "Yes" or "No," as the case may be.

20. Able to write.—Write "Yes" or "No," as the case may be.

A person may not be able to read or write the English language, and yet
may be able to read or write (or both) their native language, as French,
Spanish Italian, etc. If in such cases a person can read or write (or
both) some language, the answer to Inquiry 19 and Inquiry 20 should be
"Yes," according to the fact. If not able to so read or write the answer
should be "No." For all persons under 10 years of age use the symbol "X."
http://usa.ipums.org/usa/voliii/inst1890.shtml

There were also columns for can not read and can not write in the 1870
Federal Census, and they were only to checked if the answer was 'yes'.
The instructions for the 1870 then go on to explain:

"Education.—It will not do to assume that, because a person can read, he
can, therefore, write. The inquiries contained in columns 16 and 17 must
be made separately. Very many persons who will claim to be able to read,
though they really do so in the most defective manner, will frankly
admit that they can not write. These inquiries will not be asked of
children under 10 years of age. In regard to all persons above that age,
children or adults, male and female, the information will be obtained.

At school.—It is not intended to include those whose education has been
limited to Sunday or evening schools."
http://usa.ipums.org/usa/voliii/inst1870.shtml



Cathy

D. Stussy

Re: Weird census columns

Legg inn av D. Stussy » 11. februar 2008 kl. 5.58

"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cms385-f6q.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
Michael Kenefick wrote:
clifto wrote:
I just noticed. In the 1880 census, there are two columns, one for
"Cannot
read" and one for "cannot write". What does it mean for a person to be
able
to read but not to write? (And probably rhetorically, what about a
person
who can write but not read?)

They would only have a tick mark in one column. Mike in Ohio

I have several people who have tick marks in both, and a few with a tick
in
only the 'cannot write', thus my question.

Maybe they can't hold a pen in their hands?

Brendan R. Wehrung

Re: Weird census columns

Legg inn av Brendan R. Wehrung » 11. februar 2008 kl. 7.03

"D. Stussy" (spam@bde-arc.ampr.org) writes:
"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cms385-f6q.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
Michael Kenefick wrote:
clifto wrote:
I just noticed. In the 1880 census, there are two columns, one for
"Cannot
read" and one for "cannot write". What does it mean for a person to be
able
to read but not to write? (And probably rhetorically, what about a
person
who can write but not read?)

They would only have a tick mark in one column. Mike in Ohio

I have several people who have tick marks in both, and a few with a tick
in
only the 'cannot write', thus my question.

Maybe they can't hold a pen in their hands?




I remember a program about the Middle Ages mentioning that reading and
writing were seperate accomplishments. Clergy had to do both, but at
least in spiritual matters a layman only had to read scripture.

Brendan

Charani

Re: Weird census columns

Legg inn av Charani » 11. februar 2008 kl. 9.29

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:33:14 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:

It's hypothetically possible, since reading and writing use
different areas of the brain, and a person might suffer brain
damage that impairs their reading ability but not their writing
ability. But such cases would be rare.

Not if they'd had a stroke which can happen even in babies: as
happened to my son. He can't read properly, nor comprehend what the
words mean, but he can write after a fashion. He has a near
photographic memory so knows what the words look like. He's also
been taught the order the words go in but that's as far as it goes.
He can recognise certain words in a book or on a menu - especially on
a menu!!

However, he's a 20th century boy, not a 19th century one. Had he
been born back then, he'd have ended up in an institution if he was
lucky (ish) but would have been regarded as the village idiot
otherwise.

Same thing could apply to an older person back then who hadn't been
taught to read or write in the first place.

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