"La N" <nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:YCjwj.38638
Jenny Carrister, The Heroine of Lucknow-Mine
A HEROIC story I will unfold,
Concerning Jenny Carrister, a heroine bold,
Who lived in Australia, at a gold mine called Lucknow,
And Jenny was beloved by the the miners, somehow.
Jenny was the only daughter of the old lady who owned the mine-
And Jenny would come of an evening, like a gleam of sunshine,
And by the presence of her bright face and cheery voice,
She made the hearts of the unlucky diggers rejoice.
There was no pride about her, and day after day,
She walked with her young brother, who was always gay,
A beautiful boy he was, about thirteen years old,
And Jenny and her brother by the miners were greatly extolled.
Old Mrs Carrister was every inch a lady in her way,
Because she never pressed any of the miners that weren't able to pay
For the liberty of working the gold-field,
Which was thirty pounds per week for whatever it might yield.
It was in the early part of the year 1871,
That Jack Allingford, a miner, hit on a plan,
That in the mine, with powder, he'd loosen the granite-bound face,
So he selected, as he thought, a most suitable place.
And when all his arrangements had been made,
He was lowered down by a miner that felt a little afraid,
But most fortunately Jenny Carrister came up at the time,
Just as Jack Allingford was lowered into the mine.
Then she asked the man at the windlass if he'd had any luck,
But he picked up a piece of candle and then a match he struck;
Then Jenny asked the miner, What is that for?
And he replied to blast the mine, which I fear and abhor.
Then with a piece of rope he lowered the candle and matches into the mine,
While brave Jenny watched the action all the time;
And as the man continued to turn round the windlass handle,
Jenny asked him, Isn't it dangerous to lower the matches and candle?
Then the man replied, I hope there's no danger, Jenny, my lass,
But whatsoever God has ordained will come to pass;
And just as he said so the windlass handle swung round,
And struck him on the forehead, and he fell to the ground.
And when Jenny saw the blood streaming from the fallen man's head,
She rushed to the mouth of the shaft without any dread,
And Jenny called loudly, but received no reply,
So to her brother standing near by she heaved a deep sigh.
Telling him to run for assistance, while she swung herself on to the
hand-rope,
Resolved to save Jack Allingford's life as she earnestly did hope;
And as she proceeded down the shaft at a quick pace,
The brave heroine knew that death was staring her in the face.
And the rope was burning her hands as she descended,
But she thought if she saved Jack her task would be ended;
And when she reached the bottom of the mine she did not hesitate,
But bounding towards Jack Allingford, who was lying seemingly inanimate.
And as she approached his body the hissing fuse burst upon her ears,
But still the noble girl no danger fears;
While the hissing of the fuse was like an engine grinding upon her brain,
Still she resolved to save Jack while life in her body did remain.
She noticed a small jet of smoke issuing from a hole near his head,
And if he'd lain a few seconds longer there he'd been killed dead,
But God had sent an angel to his rescue,
For seizing him by the arms his body to the air shaft she drew.
It was a supernatural effort, but she succeeded at last,
And Jenny thanked God when the danger was past,
But at the same instant the silence was broke
By a loud explosion, which soon filled the mine with smoke.
But, oh, God be thanked! the greatest danger was past,
But when Jenny saw Jack Allingford, she stood aghast,
Because the blood was issuing from his nest and ears,
And as Jenny viewed his wounds she shed many tears.
But heroic Jenny was not one of the fainting sort,
For immediately to the mouth of the mine she did resort,
And she called loudly for help, the noble lass,
And her cry was answered by voices above at the windlass.
So there were plenty to volunteer their services below,
And the rope was attached to the windlass, and down they did go,
And Jack Allingford and Jenny were raised to the top,
While Jenny, noble soul, with exhaustion was like to drop.
And when the miners saw her safe above there was a burst of applause,
Because she had rescued Jack Allingford from death's jaws;
So all ye that read or hear this story, I have but to say,
That Jenny Carrister was the noblest heroine I've ever heard of in my day.
Blount-Ayala
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Nebulous
Re: Darwin Award Writ Large -- Best Ensemble Performance
"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in message news:2Qjwj.746
Some Scottish culture, courtesy of Spencer Hines
Jenny Carrister, The Heroine of Lucknow-Mine
A HEROIC story I will unfold,
Concerning Jenny Carrister, a heroine bold,
Who lived in Australia, at a gold mine called Lucknow,
And Jenny was beloved by the the miners, somehow.
Jenny was the only daughter of the old lady who owned the mine-
And Jenny would come of an evening, like a gleam of sunshine,
And by the presence of her bright face and cheery voice,
She made the hearts of the unlucky diggers rejoice.
There was no pride about her, and day after day,
She walked with her young brother, who was always gay,
A beautiful boy he was, about thirteen years old,
And Jenny and her brother by the miners were greatly extolled.
Old Mrs Carrister was every inch a lady in her way,
Because she never pressed any of the miners that weren't able to pay
For the liberty of working the gold-field,
Which was thirty pounds per week for whatever it might yield.
It was in the early part of the year 1871,
That Jack Allingford, a miner, hit on a plan,
That in the mine, with powder, he'd loosen the granite-bound face,
So he selected, as he thought, a most suitable place.
And when all his arrangements had been made,
He was lowered down by a miner that felt a little afraid,
But most fortunately Jenny Carrister came up at the time,
Just as Jack Allingford was lowered into the mine.
Then she asked the man at the windlass if he'd had any luck,
But he picked up a piece of candle and then a match he struck;
Then Jenny asked the miner, What is that for?
And he replied to blast the mine, which I fear and abhor.
Then with a piece of rope he lowered the candle and matches into the mine,
While brave Jenny watched the action all the time;
And as the man continued to turn round the windlass handle,
Jenny asked him, Isn't it dangerous to lower the matches and candle?
Then the man replied, I hope there's no danger, Jenny, my lass,
But whatsoever God has ordained will come to pass;
And just as he said so the windlass handle swung round,
And struck him on the forehead, and he fell to the ground.
And when Jenny saw the blood streaming from the fallen man's head,
She rushed to the mouth of the shaft without any dread,
And Jenny called loudly, but received no reply,
So to her brother standing near by she heaved a deep sigh.
Telling him to run for assistance, while she swung herself on to the
hand-rope,
Resolved to save Jack Allingford's life as she earnestly did hope;
And as she proceeded down the shaft at a quick pace,
The brave heroine knew that death was staring her in the face.
And the rope was burning her hands as she descended,
But she thought if she saved Jack her task would be ended;
And when she reached the bottom of the mine she did not hesitate,
But bounding towards Jack Allingford, who was lying seemingly inanimate.
And as she approached his body the hissing fuse burst upon her ears,
But still the noble girl no danger fears;
While the hissing of the fuse was like an engine grinding upon her brain,
Still she resolved to save Jack while life in her body did remain.
She noticed a small jet of smoke issuing from a hole near his head,
And if he'd lain a few seconds longer there he'd been killed dead,
But God had sent an angel to his rescue,
For seizing him by the arms his body to the air shaft she drew.
It was a supernatural effort, but she succeeded at last,
And Jenny thanked God when the danger was past,
But at the same instant the silence was broke
By a loud explosion, which soon filled the mine with smoke.
But, oh, God be thanked! the greatest danger was past,
But when Jenny saw Jack Allingford, she stood aghast,
Because the blood was issuing from his nest and ears,
And as Jenny viewed his wounds she shed many tears.
But heroic Jenny was not one of the fainting sort,
For immediately to the mouth of the mine she did resort,
And she called loudly for help, the noble lass,
And her cry was answered by voices above at the windlass.
So there were plenty to volunteer their services below,
And the rope was attached to the windlass, and down they did go,
And Jack Allingford and Jenny were raised to the top,
While Jenny, noble soul, with exhaustion was like to drop.
And when the miners saw her safe above there was a burst of applause,
Because she had rescued Jack Allingford from death's jaws;
So all ye that read or hear this story, I have but to say,
That Jenny Carrister was the noblest heroine I've ever heard of in my day.
Some Scottish culture, courtesy of Spencer Hines
Jenny Carrister, The Heroine of Lucknow-Mine
A HEROIC story I will unfold,
Concerning Jenny Carrister, a heroine bold,
Who lived in Australia, at a gold mine called Lucknow,
And Jenny was beloved by the the miners, somehow.
Jenny was the only daughter of the old lady who owned the mine-
And Jenny would come of an evening, like a gleam of sunshine,
And by the presence of her bright face and cheery voice,
She made the hearts of the unlucky diggers rejoice.
There was no pride about her, and day after day,
She walked with her young brother, who was always gay,
A beautiful boy he was, about thirteen years old,
And Jenny and her brother by the miners were greatly extolled.
Old Mrs Carrister was every inch a lady in her way,
Because she never pressed any of the miners that weren't able to pay
For the liberty of working the gold-field,
Which was thirty pounds per week for whatever it might yield.
It was in the early part of the year 1871,
That Jack Allingford, a miner, hit on a plan,
That in the mine, with powder, he'd loosen the granite-bound face,
So he selected, as he thought, a most suitable place.
And when all his arrangements had been made,
He was lowered down by a miner that felt a little afraid,
But most fortunately Jenny Carrister came up at the time,
Just as Jack Allingford was lowered into the mine.
Then she asked the man at the windlass if he'd had any luck,
But he picked up a piece of candle and then a match he struck;
Then Jenny asked the miner, What is that for?
And he replied to blast the mine, which I fear and abhor.
Then with a piece of rope he lowered the candle and matches into the mine,
While brave Jenny watched the action all the time;
And as the man continued to turn round the windlass handle,
Jenny asked him, Isn't it dangerous to lower the matches and candle?
Then the man replied, I hope there's no danger, Jenny, my lass,
But whatsoever God has ordained will come to pass;
And just as he said so the windlass handle swung round,
And struck him on the forehead, and he fell to the ground.
And when Jenny saw the blood streaming from the fallen man's head,
She rushed to the mouth of the shaft without any dread,
And Jenny called loudly, but received no reply,
So to her brother standing near by she heaved a deep sigh.
Telling him to run for assistance, while she swung herself on to the
hand-rope,
Resolved to save Jack Allingford's life as she earnestly did hope;
And as she proceeded down the shaft at a quick pace,
The brave heroine knew that death was staring her in the face.
And the rope was burning her hands as she descended,
But she thought if she saved Jack her task would be ended;
And when she reached the bottom of the mine she did not hesitate,
But bounding towards Jack Allingford, who was lying seemingly inanimate.
And as she approached his body the hissing fuse burst upon her ears,
But still the noble girl no danger fears;
While the hissing of the fuse was like an engine grinding upon her brain,
Still she resolved to save Jack while life in her body did remain.
She noticed a small jet of smoke issuing from a hole near his head,
And if he'd lain a few seconds longer there he'd been killed dead,
But God had sent an angel to his rescue,
For seizing him by the arms his body to the air shaft she drew.
It was a supernatural effort, but she succeeded at last,
And Jenny thanked God when the danger was past,
But at the same instant the silence was broke
By a loud explosion, which soon filled the mine with smoke.
But, oh, God be thanked! the greatest danger was past,
But when Jenny saw Jack Allingford, she stood aghast,
Because the blood was issuing from his nest and ears,
And as Jenny viewed his wounds she shed many tears.
But heroic Jenny was not one of the fainting sort,
For immediately to the mouth of the mine she did resort,
And she called loudly for help, the noble lass,
And her cry was answered by voices above at the windlass.
So there were plenty to volunteer their services below,
And the rope was attached to the windlass, and down they did go,
And Jack Allingford and Jenny were raised to the top,
While Jenny, noble soul, with exhaustion was like to drop.
And when the miners saw her safe above there was a burst of applause,
Because she had rescued Jack Allingford from death's jaws;
So all ye that read or hear this story, I have but to say,
That Jenny Carrister was the noblest heroine I've ever heard of in my day.
-
John Kane
Re: GEORGE WASHINGTON, BRITISH OFFICER: Was: Don't Be Paroch
Ray O'Hara wrote:
It's a bit like saying California is a Southern state.
--
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
"John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:CJ2wj.2787$g81.1960@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Ray O'Hara wrote:
"Brian Sharrock" <b.sharrock@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:nZ1wj.68$Z_2.46@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
According to Wikipedia; - " Irish citizens could serve in the
British armed forces as around 38,554 in the British Army did "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_neut ... rld_War_II
Of course, this figure will be higher if the RN and RAF recruits
were cited.
But i EXPECT "Ray O'Hara" using <mary.palmucci@rcn.com> account
will regale everybody with an explanation of why these Brave Irish
men fought WITH British forces against the Nazis.
men from ulster.
For a start you mean "Northern Ireland", as three counties of Ulster are
in
the Republic.
But in any case, because of Irish sensibilities there was no conscription
in
Northern Ireland - with the net result that more men from South than from
the North served in the British army during World War II.
--
John Briggs
and they are routinely referred to as ulster, so go back to your corner anal
retentive ways.
Not by anyone who knows anything about Ulster and Northern Ireland.
It's a bit like saying California is a Southern state.
--
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
-
Ray O'Hara
Re: GEORGE WASHINGTON, BRITISH OFFICER: Was: Don't Be Paroch
"John Kane" <jrkrideau@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fpsjcs$soh$3@registered.motzarella.org...
ulster has 9 counties, 6 are in the british controlled northern ireland.
any one who thinks ulster isn't used as a catch phrase for NI is mistaken
and your anology is typical of a frostback, mistaken.
when my reletives from ireland call someone an ulsterman then mean a prot
from NI
you and the fool blackguard as idiots.
news:fpsjcs$soh$3@registered.motzarella.org...
Ray O'Hara wrote:
"John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:CJ2wj.2787$g81.1960@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Ray O'Hara wrote:
"Brian Sharrock" <b.sharrock@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:nZ1wj.68$Z_2.46@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
According to Wikipedia; - " Irish citizens could serve in the
British armed forces as around 38,554 in the British Army did "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_neut ... rld_War_II
Of course, this figure will be higher if the RN and RAF recruits
were cited.
But i EXPECT "Ray O'Hara" using <mary.palmucci@rcn.com> account
will regale everybody with an explanation of why these Brave Irish
men fought WITH British forces against the Nazis.
men from ulster.
For a start you mean "Northern Ireland", as three counties of Ulster
are
in
the Republic.
But in any case, because of Irish sensibilities there was no
conscription
in
Northern Ireland - with the net result that more men from South than
from
the North served in the British army during World War II.
--
John Briggs
and they are routinely referred to as ulster, so go back to your corner
anal
retentive ways.
Not by anyone who knows anything about Ulster and Northern Ireland.
It's a bit like saying California is a Southern state.
--
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
ulster has 9 counties, 6 are in the british controlled northern ireland.
any one who thinks ulster isn't used as a catch phrase for NI is mistaken
and your anology is typical of a frostback, mistaken.
when my reletives from ireland call someone an ulsterman then mean a prot
from NI
you and the fool blackguard as idiots.
-
deemsbill@aol.com
Re: GEORGE WASHINGTON, BRITISH OFFICER: was Don't Be Parochi
On Feb 24, 1:50 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmu...@rcn.com> wrote:
No, but I'm on a mission.
deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5df52959-a3a2-4110-8599-8fe8f11f20f8@o10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
you're not new to the usenet. you've seen threads morph before. the
starting and end point are rarely the same.
< That doesn't stop me from trying to rein it in.....
has that ever worked?
No, but I'm on a mission.
-
Renia
Re: GEORGE WASHINGTON, BRITISH OFFICER: was Don't Be Parochi
Ray O'Hara wrote:
That's it. Move the goalposts.
the virginia regiment was more like a continental regt than a militia unit.
That's it. Move the goalposts.
-
Ray O'Hara
Re: GEORGE WASHINGTON, BRITISH OFFICER: was Don't Be Parochi
"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:fpssrh$s2s$2@mouse.otenet.gr...
huh?
news:fpssrh$s2s$2@mouse.otenet.gr...
Ray O'Hara wrote:
the virginia regiment was more like a continental regt than a militia
unit.
That's it. Move the goalposts
huh?
-
Ray O'Hara
Re: GEORGE WASHINGTON, BRITISH OFFICER: was Don't Be Parochi
"John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1Ajwj.3794$St5.1048@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
well then you should have added the comment under the bit about continentals
and not under the militia bit.
news:1Ajwj.3794$St5.1048@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/2001 ... litia.html
it was to take powder stockpiled for use against the brits. every
town had its powder house. the one in my town still stands.
the
militia did not become the colonial army. although many men served.
regiments were raised for the continental army in a similar manner
to the civil war. the colonel was apppinted by the colonial
governor and the men were sworn in as regulars for a specified term
and subject to regular military discipline and rules..
militia units were still used during the war, appearing when trouble
threatened and dispersing to home when it passed.
And exactly the same applied to the Virginia Regiment.
the virginia regiment was more like a continental regt than a militia
unit.
That's what I meant.
--
John Briggs
well then you should have added the comment under the bit about continentals
and not under the militia bit.
-
Renia
Re: GEORGE WASHINGTON, BRITISH OFFICER: was Don't Be Parochi
Ray O'Hara wrote:
You were calling it a militia earlier.
"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:fpssrh$s2s$2@mouse.otenet.gr...
Ray O'Hara wrote:
the virginia regiment was more like a continental regt than a militia
unit.
That's it. Move the goalposts
huh?
You were calling it a militia earlier.
-
Nebulous
Re: Is Public Health Losing Credibility?
"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:SHswj.762$9l1.5616@eagle.america.net...
Some Scottish culture, courtesy of Spencer Hines.
Lines in Memoriam Regarding the Entertainment I Gave on the 31st March,
1893, in Reform Street Hall, Dundee
'Twas on the 31st of March, and in the year of 1893,
I gave an entertainment in the city of Dundee,
To a select party of gentlemen, big and small,
Who appreciated my recital in Reform Street Hall.
The meeting was convened by J. P. Smith's manager, High Street,
And many of J. P. Smith's employes were there me to greet,
And several other gentlemen within the city,
Who were all delighted with the entertainment they got from me.
Mr Green was the chairman for the night,
And in that capacity he acted right;
He made a splendid address on my behalf,
Without introducing any slang or chaff.
I wish him success during life;
May he always feel happy and free from strife,
For the kindness he has ever shown to me
During our long acquaintance in Dundee.
I return my thanks to Mr J. P. Smith's men,
Who were at my entertainment more than nine or ten;
And the rest of the gentlemen that were there,
Also deserves my thanks, I do declare.
Because they showered upon me their approbation,
And got up for me a handsome donation,
Which was presented to me by Sir Green,
In a purse most beautiful to be seen.
Which was a generous action in deed,
And came to me in time of need.
And the gentlemen that so generously treated me
I'll remember during my stay in Dundee.
news:SHswj.762$9l1.5616@eagle.america.net...
Some Scottish culture, courtesy of Spencer Hines.
Lines in Memoriam Regarding the Entertainment I Gave on the 31st March,
1893, in Reform Street Hall, Dundee
'Twas on the 31st of March, and in the year of 1893,
I gave an entertainment in the city of Dundee,
To a select party of gentlemen, big and small,
Who appreciated my recital in Reform Street Hall.
The meeting was convened by J. P. Smith's manager, High Street,
And many of J. P. Smith's employes were there me to greet,
And several other gentlemen within the city,
Who were all delighted with the entertainment they got from me.
Mr Green was the chairman for the night,
And in that capacity he acted right;
He made a splendid address on my behalf,
Without introducing any slang or chaff.
I wish him success during life;
May he always feel happy and free from strife,
For the kindness he has ever shown to me
During our long acquaintance in Dundee.
I return my thanks to Mr J. P. Smith's men,
Who were at my entertainment more than nine or ten;
And the rest of the gentlemen that were there,
Also deserves my thanks, I do declare.
Because they showered upon me their approbation,
And got up for me a handsome donation,
Which was presented to me by Sir Green,
In a purse most beautiful to be seen.
Which was a generous action in deed,
And came to me in time of need.
And the gentlemen that so generously treated me
I'll remember during my stay in Dundee.
-
norenxaq
Re: Christian Kings
Leo van de Pas wrote:
and Emperor Ezanas of Ethiopia around 330
I understand that the Merovingian king Clovis I the Great converted to Christianity, probably before the year 500.
Forgetting Roman Emperors, was he the first Christian king in history? Where there any earlier ones, for example in Spain?
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
there were earlier ones. in particular the king of Armenia around 350
and Emperor Ezanas of Ethiopia around 330
-
Nebulous
Re: No Country For Old Men
"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in message news:rtuwj.763
Some Scottish culture, courtesy of Spencer Hines.
Lines in Memoriam Regarding the Entertainment I Gave on the 31st March,
1893, in Reform Street Hall, Dundee
'Twas on the 31st of March, and in the year of 1893,
I gave an entertainment in the city of Dundee,
To a select party of gentlemen, big and small,
Who appreciated my recital in Reform Street Hall.
The meeting was convened by J. P. Smith's manager, High Street,
And many of J. P. Smith's employes were there me to greet,
And several other gentlemen within the city,
Who were all delighted with the entertainment they got from me.
Mr Green was the chairman for the night,
And in that capacity he acted right;
He made a splendid address on my behalf,
Without introducing any slang or chaff.
I wish him success during life;
May he always feel happy and free from strife,
For the kindness he has ever shown to me
During our long acquaintance in Dundee.
I return my thanks to Mr J. P. Smith's men,
Who were at my entertainment more than nine or ten;
And the rest of the gentlemen that were there,
Also deserves my thanks, I do declare.
Because they showered upon me their approbation,
And got up for me a handsome donation,
Which was presented to me by Sir Green,
In a purse most beautiful to be seen.
Which was a generous action in deed,
And came to me in time of need.
And the gentlemen that so generously treated me
I'll remember during my stay in Dundee.
Some Scottish culture, courtesy of Spencer Hines.
Lines in Memoriam Regarding the Entertainment I Gave on the 31st March,
1893, in Reform Street Hall, Dundee
'Twas on the 31st of March, and in the year of 1893,
I gave an entertainment in the city of Dundee,
To a select party of gentlemen, big and small,
Who appreciated my recital in Reform Street Hall.
The meeting was convened by J. P. Smith's manager, High Street,
And many of J. P. Smith's employes were there me to greet,
And several other gentlemen within the city,
Who were all delighted with the entertainment they got from me.
Mr Green was the chairman for the night,
And in that capacity he acted right;
He made a splendid address on my behalf,
Without introducing any slang or chaff.
I wish him success during life;
May he always feel happy and free from strife,
For the kindness he has ever shown to me
During our long acquaintance in Dundee.
I return my thanks to Mr J. P. Smith's men,
Who were at my entertainment more than nine or ten;
And the rest of the gentlemen that were there,
Also deserves my thanks, I do declare.
Because they showered upon me their approbation,
And got up for me a handsome donation,
Which was presented to me by Sir Green,
In a purse most beautiful to be seen.
Which was a generous action in deed,
And came to me in time of need.
And the gentlemen that so generously treated me
I'll remember during my stay in Dundee.
-
Gjest
Re: Guerrillas
On Feb 25, 5:18 am, "Nebulous" <jw...@pigtail.com> wrote:
(four cross-posted newsgroups removed)
(snip of rubbish)
Aren't we lucky that - thanks to the campaign of the troll Hines - we
now have yet another cross-posting troll inflicted on SGM?
I hope Douglas Richardson is enjoying the garbage that the rest of us
are having to wade through - afterall, it's exactly what he and his
friend Hines want for this group.
Lucky us.
MA-R
(four cross-posted newsgroups removed)
(snip of rubbish)
Aren't we lucky that - thanks to the campaign of the troll Hines - we
now have yet another cross-posting troll inflicted on SGM?
I hope Douglas Richardson is enjoying the garbage that the rest of us
are having to wade through - afterall, it's exactly what he and his
friend Hines want for this group.
Lucky us.
MA-R
-
Tony Ingham
Re: Clifford of Mapledurham?
Will,
The record of the house of Gournay. By Daniel Gurney. (1845) pp. 222.
During her tenancy of the manor of Mapledurham-Gurnay as her dower,
Matilda de Gurnay obtained the wardship of land of the heir of Roger de
Kingston, who had held in Kingston, com. Berks, one fief of the Honour
of Dudley belonging to Roger de Someri, and she took to her second
husband Roger de Clifford, of Bridge Sollers, com. Heref.
A History of the County of Berkshire: Volume 4 (1924), pp. 349-353.
Parishes: Kingston Bagpuize
From William son of Ansculph the overlordship of the second manor of
Kingston descended with the manor of Bradfield, (fn. 55) of which these
lands were held in 1502. (fn. 56)
Adelelm held under William son of Ansculph in 1086. (fn. 57) He is
called Adelelm de Kingston in 1113, (fn. 58) and was presumably ancestor
of the succeeding owners of the manor. About 1240 Maud de Gournay,
perhaps wife of Hugh de Gournay who died in 1239, (fn. 59) held a
knight's fee in 'Kyngeston Rogeri' as guardian of the heir of Roger de
Kingston, (fn. 60) and a John de Kingston purchased half a hide of land
here from John Pygate in 1248. (fn. 61) The Kingstons were succeeded by
the family of Fokeram; (fn. 62) William de Fokeram, tenant in 1272, must
have been the William de Fokeram who alienated half the advowson of
Fyfield to the Prior of Poughley. (fn. 63) In 1290 his son William
quitclaimed to William de Birmingham, lord of Maidencourt, and his heirs
the remainder of a messuage, 2 carucates of land and 100s. rent here
which his father and mother Ellen held for life with remainder to
himself. (fn. 64)
Footnotes:
59 Hannay, Norman House, 198.
60 Testa de Nevill (Rec. Com.), 122. The date is fixed by the death of
Robert Achard, lord of Aldermaston (q.v.) and by the grant of Basildon
(q.v.) to Robert de Guisnes.
61 Feet of F. Berks. 32 Hen. III, no. 18.
Extracting:
About 1240 Maud de Gournay, perhaps wife of Hugh de Gournay who died in
1239, (fn. 59) held a knight's fee in 'Kyngeston Rogeri' as guardian of
the heir of Roger de Kingston, (fn. 60)
1242/3 Book of Fees Vol II. BERKS. 1242-1243. p. 844
Roger de Clifford' de terra que fuit Rogeri de Kingeston' in eodem
[Kingeston'] j. feodum
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You wont get any other Contemporary Primary scources apart from these!
Abt. 1240 Maud de Gournay held the knight's fee previously held by
Roger de Kingston .
1242/3 Roger de Clifford held the same knight's fee.
Roger married Maud/Matilda the widow of Hugh de Gournay.
Incidentally, Henry Gurney was a dab hand at quoting contemporaneous
primary sources. Check out his 3 books on Google Books.
Tony
The record of the house of Gournay. By Daniel Gurney. (1845) pp. 222.
During her tenancy of the manor of Mapledurham-Gurnay as her dower,
Matilda de Gurnay obtained the wardship of land of the heir of Roger de
Kingston, who had held in Kingston, com. Berks, one fief of the Honour
of Dudley belonging to Roger de Someri, and she took to her second
husband Roger de Clifford, of Bridge Sollers, com. Heref.
A History of the County of Berkshire: Volume 4 (1924), pp. 349-353.
Parishes: Kingston Bagpuize
From William son of Ansculph the overlordship of the second manor of
Kingston descended with the manor of Bradfield, (fn. 55) of which these
lands were held in 1502. (fn. 56)
Adelelm held under William son of Ansculph in 1086. (fn. 57) He is
called Adelelm de Kingston in 1113, (fn. 58) and was presumably ancestor
of the succeeding owners of the manor. About 1240 Maud de Gournay,
perhaps wife of Hugh de Gournay who died in 1239, (fn. 59) held a
knight's fee in 'Kyngeston Rogeri' as guardian of the heir of Roger de
Kingston, (fn. 60) and a John de Kingston purchased half a hide of land
here from John Pygate in 1248. (fn. 61) The Kingstons were succeeded by
the family of Fokeram; (fn. 62) William de Fokeram, tenant in 1272, must
have been the William de Fokeram who alienated half the advowson of
Fyfield to the Prior of Poughley. (fn. 63) In 1290 his son William
quitclaimed to William de Birmingham, lord of Maidencourt, and his heirs
the remainder of a messuage, 2 carucates of land and 100s. rent here
which his father and mother Ellen held for life with remainder to
himself. (fn. 64)
Footnotes:
59 Hannay, Norman House, 198.
60 Testa de Nevill (Rec. Com.), 122. The date is fixed by the death of
Robert Achard, lord of Aldermaston (q.v.) and by the grant of Basildon
(q.v.) to Robert de Guisnes.
61 Feet of F. Berks. 32 Hen. III, no. 18.
Extracting:
About 1240 Maud de Gournay, perhaps wife of Hugh de Gournay who died in
1239, (fn. 59) held a knight's fee in 'Kyngeston Rogeri' as guardian of
the heir of Roger de Kingston, (fn. 60)
1242/3 Book of Fees Vol II. BERKS. 1242-1243. p. 844
Roger de Clifford' de terra que fuit Rogeri de Kingeston' in eodem
[Kingeston'] j. feodum
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You wont get any other Contemporary Primary scources apart from these!
Abt. 1240 Maud de Gournay held the knight's fee previously held by
Roger de Kingston .
1242/3 Roger de Clifford held the same knight's fee.
Roger married Maud/Matilda the widow of Hugh de Gournay.
Incidentally, Henry Gurney was a dab hand at quoting contemporaneous
primary sources. Check out his 3 books on Google Books.
Tony
------------------------------------------------------
You're quoting a work from 1845, we need to see the original primaries to
see if actually she maybe held a *moiety* of the manor which was later granted.
Also she could have *bought* her sister's half. These sorts of things
can't really be properly worked out through old secondary sources who weren't
terribly apt at quoting their sources exactly.
Will Johnson
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