Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

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Reinapol

Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Reinapol » 21. desember 2007 kl. 21.14

Hello,

I have read your posts. I understand that the trace is leading to Odense and to the fynske railwaystations.

May be you should try these archives:

http://www.fynhistorie.dk/forside


Regards
Reina

Richard van Schaik

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Richard van Schaik » 22. desember 2007 kl. 1.45

Reinapol wrote:

I have read your posts. I understand that the trace is leading to Odense and to the fynske railwaystations.

May be you should try these archives:

http://www.fynhistorie.dk/forside

It seems all think I can read danish. But that is not true. Hugh told me
that dutch is danish with spelling mistakes, for me it is more the
contrary. Danish looks a bit like dutch with loads of spelling errors in
it. For me partly readable, but in more complicated texts I do miss the
essence. Thanks for all guidance I got, especially Hugh should be
mentioned in this case.

Thanks for the hint Reina, but I'll have to puzzle on the text of this
site for a long time to be able to understand.

Regards,
Richard

--
Richard van Schaik
f.m.a.vanschaikREMOVE@THISwanadoo.nl
http://www.fmavanschaik.nl/

Hugh Watkins

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 9. januar 2008 kl. 7.27

Richard van Schaik wrote:
Reinapol wrote:

I have read your posts. I understand that the trace is leading to
Odense and to the fynske railwaystations.

May be you should try these archives:

http://www.fynhistorie.dk/forside

It seems all think I can read danish. But that is not true. Hugh told me
that dutch is danish with spelling mistakes, for me it is more the
contrary. Danish looks a bit like dutch with loads of spelling errors in
it. For me partly readable, but in more complicated texts I do miss the
essence. Thanks for all guidance I got, especially Hugh should be
mentioned in this case.

Thanks for the hint Reina, but I'll have to puzzle on the text of this
site for a long time to be able to understand.


I am looking for data in the Danish National Archives

The Railway Contrctors had an Offiuce in Aarhus

I have found a map from 1854
with a red line drawn on it

but the irst accounts are after the Danish take over from the
contractors by the the Jydsk-Fyenske Jernbaneselskab (JFJ)

If you can read accounts they imply a description of how the railway
was run
but I think the foriegners had nearly all left by then


google

fyenske bane

new name

surveyer LOUTH

Middelfart Avis
den 15 Oktober 1859.
- Mr. Louth m.Fl. har i et Par Dage opholdt sig her i Byen og foretaget
enkelte Opmaalinger i Omegnen, som det hedder, for at udfinde en
passende Plads for den eventuelle fyenske Banes Endestation - Man lægger
til, at det for Øieblikket ikke har saa overmaade lange Udsigter med den
fyenske Bane, og at der skal være en slags Mulighed for, at den jydske
Tværbane gaaer i Spaanerne. Kommer Længdeba-neprojectet til Udførelse
vil den fyenske Bane blive paabe-gyndt først
(meddelt)

enjoy

Hugh W

Richard van Schaik

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Richard van Schaik » 9. januar 2008 kl. 19.29

Hugh Watkins wrote:

I am looking for data in the Danish National Archives

He means this pile of archive material:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2338/217 ... fc03_b.jpg
(taken from a post Hugh made in soc.genealogy.britain).

The Railway Contrctors had an Offiuce in Aarhus

I have found a map from 1854
with a red line drawn on it

but the irst accounts are after the Danish take over from the
contractors by the the Jydsk-Fyenske Jernbaneselskab (JFJ)

So those start approx. 1865? That would be a pity!

If you can read accounts they imply a description of how the railway
was run
but I think the foriegners had nearly all left by then

That would be really a pity, then it gets to the proverbial needle. But
at least I've now also a second optional place (Aarhus) to search for
the baptism of their son. I didn't finish Odense yet regretfully
(extending my genealogy hobby a bit wide at the moment). But its on the
to-do list if Odense fails (and I know, he might not even have been
baptised in Denmark but as long as also not found in Britain all options
are wide open).

google

fyenske bane

new name

surveyer LOUTH

Middelfart Avis
den 15 Oktober 1859.
- Mr. Louth m.Fl. har i et Par Dage opholdt sig her i Byen og foretaget
enkelte Opmaalinger i Omegnen, som det hedder, for at udfinde en
passende Plads for den eventuelle fyenske Banes Endestation - Man lægger
til, at det for Øieblikket ikke har saa overmaade lange Udsigter med den
fyenske Bane, og at der skal være en slags Mulighed for, at den jydske
Tværbane gaaer i Spaanerne. Kommer Længdeba-neprojectet til Udførelse
vil den fyenske Bane blive paabe-gyndt først (meddelt)

I'll have to study on this tekst, not immediately clear what is meant.
Maybe I should call in the partial help of online translation (hopefully
Danish - English (or German, French, Dutch) is available, but that is
easy to check).

A deeply meant thank you Hugh (especially if I look at this huge pile of
old documents you described as "the trolley load of archive packages I
am searching just now in Copenhagen. Military and railway mss").

If it all works out to the prove wanted this one is not only gold plated
but also inlaid with diamonds! (A reference to some postings in the
british group where Hugh gave that at least three fully independent
indications are needed to get the data gold plated).

Regards,
Richard

--
Richard van Schaik
f.m.a.vanschaikREMOVE@THISwanadoo.nl
http://www.fmavanschaik.nl/

Hugh Watkins

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 9. januar 2008 kl. 21.20

Don't hold your breath

I would expect a christening back in England at a later date
possibly several siblings on the same day

It would have been a 4 day round trip to vsit the embasy in Copenhagen
by sailing vessel

1860 census may be a better bet

did a Miss Fanny Watons marry a dentist in Aarhus?

Samtlige personer i husstanden

Aarhus, Hasle, Aarhus Købstad, Århus Købstad 10, 117/mindegade, 7, FT
1880, A4181
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Harry Hoppe 33 Gift Husfader Tandlæge Kjøbenhavn
Fanny Vilhelmine Hoppe 30 Gift Husmoder Holbek
Holger Hoppe 4 - Barn Kjøbenhavn
Ida Camilla Thomasine Hoppe 1 - Barn Aarhus
Jens Jørgen Watson Hoppe Under 1 - Barn Aarhus
Marie Hansen 27 Ugift Tyende Estruplund Sogn
Marie Dorthea Jensen 17 Ugift Tyende Aarhus
Louise Magdalene Hammershøi 78 Enke Husmoder Aarhus
Carl Theodor Hammershøi 48 Ugift Søn Sæbesyder Aarhus
Julie Wilhelmine Hammershøi 36 Ugift Datter Aarhus
Ane Birgitte Petersen 29 Ugift Tyende Fruering Sognteh

Aarhus church books are on a CD

Hugh W

Richard van Schaik wrote:
Hugh Watkins wrote:

I am looking for data in the Danish National Archives

He means this pile of archive material:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2338/217 ... fc03_b.jpg
(taken from a post Hugh made in soc.genealogy.britain).

The Railway Contrctors had an Offiuce in Aarhus

I have found a map from 1854
with a red line drawn on it

but the irst accounts are after the Danish take over from the
contractors by the the Jydsk-Fyenske Jernbaneselskab (JFJ)

So those start approx. 1865? That would be a pity!

If you can read accounts they imply a description of how the railway
was run
but I think the foriegners had nearly all left by then

That would be really a pity, then it gets to the proverbial needle. But
at least I've now also a second optional place (Aarhus) to search for
the baptism of their son. I didn't finish Odense yet regretfully
(extending my genealogy hobby a bit wide at the moment). But its on the
to-do list if Odense fails (and I know, he might not even have been
baptised in Denmark but as long as also not found in Britain all options
are wide open).

google

fyenske bane

new name

surveyer LOUTH

Middelfart Avis
den 15 Oktober 1859.
- Mr. Louth m.Fl. har i et Par Dage opholdt sig her i Byen og
foretaget enkelte Opmaalinger i Omegnen, som det hedder, for at
udfinde en passende Plads for den eventuelle fyenske Banes Endestation
- Man lægger til, at det for Øieblikket ikke har saa overmaade lange
Udsigter med den fyenske Bane, og at der skal være en slags Mulighed
for, at den jydske Tværbane gaaer i Spaanerne. Kommer
Længdeba-neprojectet til Udførelse vil den fyenske Bane blive
paabe-gyndt først (meddelt)

I'll have to study on this tekst, not immediately clear what is meant.
Maybe I should call in the partial help of online translation (hopefully
Danish - English (or German, French, Dutch) is available, but that is
easy to check).

A deeply meant thank you Hugh (especially if I look at this huge pile of
old documents you described as "the trolley load of archive packages I
am searching just now in Copenhagen. Military and railway mss").

If it all works out to the prove wanted this one is not only gold plated
but also inlaid with diamonds! (A reference to some postings in the
british group where Hugh gave that at least three fully independent
indications are needed to get the data gold plated).

Regards,
Richard

Richard van Schaik

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Richard van Schaik » 9. januar 2008 kl. 21.52

Hugh Watkins wrote:
Don't hold your breath

I never hold my breath in genealogy, it simply takes too long to achieve
reliable results. I'm among other busy with my ancestor Johannes van
Schaik for 8 years now and still can't prove anything. That one is even
"simple" compared to this one as it all is dependent on only one archive
(likely). However I'm unlucky in this case as "he did his best to erase
connections" and succeeded thusfar.

I would expect a christening back in England at a later date
possibly several siblings on the same day

Could be, but then which year and which parish (retorical question).

It would have been a 4 day round trip to vsit the embasy in Copenhagen
by sailing vessel

Rather long to expect some notes there (and returned to England)

1860 census may be a better bet

did a Miss Fanny Watons marry a dentist in Aarhus?

Samtlige personer i husstanden

Aarhus, Hasle, Aarhus Købstad, Århus Købstad 10, 117/mindegade, 7, FT
1880, A4181
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden:
Erhverv: Fødested:
Harry Hoppe 33 Gift Husfader Tandlæge Kjøbenhavn
Fanny Vilhelmine Hoppe 30 Gift Husmoder Holbek
Holger Hoppe 4 - Barn Kjøbenhavn
Ida Camilla Thomasine Hoppe 1 - Barn Aarhus
Jens Jørgen Watson Hoppe Under 1 - Barn Aarhus
Marie Hansen 27 Ugift Tyende Estruplund Sogn
Marie Dorthea Jensen 17 Ugift Tyende Aarhus
Louise Magdalene Hammershøi 78 Enke Husmoder Aarhus
Carl Theodor Hammershøi 48 Ugift Søn Sæbesyder Aarhus
Julie Wilhelmine Hammershøi 36 Ugift Datter Aarhus
Ane Birgitte Petersen 29 Ugift Tyende Fruering Sognteh

Have to dive deeper into this, never heard of Fanny. So even others in
the family might have been there (like a sister?) or even a daughter
staying behind (isn't she young in 1865 to have stayed behind however).
Just feeble thoughts on an other possibility.

Aarhus church books are on a CD

Which I don't have.

Regards,
Richard

--
Richard van Schaik
f.m.a.vanschaikREMOVE@THISwanadoo.nl
http://www.fmavanschaik.nl/

Hugh Watkins

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Hugh Watkins » 10. januar 2008 kl. 9.13

Richard van Schaik wrote:
Hugh Watkins wrote:
Don't hold your breath

I never hold my breath in genealogy, it simply takes too long to achieve
reliable results. I'm among other busy with my ancestor Johannes van
Schaik for 8 years now and still can't prove anything. That one is even
"simple" compared to this one as it all is dependent on only one archive
(likely). However I'm unlucky in this case as "he did his best to erase
connections" and succeeded thusfar.

I would expect a christening back in England at a later date
possibly several siblings on the same day


Could be, but then which year and which parish (retorical question).


trace the collateral lines in the UK census

It would have been a 4 day round trip to vsit the embasy in
Copenhagen by sailing vessel

Rather long to expect some notes there (and returned to England)

1860 census may be a better bet

did a Miss Fanny Watons marry a dentist in Aarhus?

Samtlige personer i husstanden

Aarhus, Hasle, Aarhus Købstad, Århus Købstad 10, 117/mindegade, 7, FT
1880, A4181
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden:
Erhverv: Fødested:
Harry Hoppe 33 Gift Husfader Tandlæge Kjøbenhavn
Fanny Vilhelmine Hoppe 30 Gift Husmoder Holbek
Holger Hoppe 4 - Barn Kjøbenhavn
Ida Camilla Thomasine Hoppe 1 - Barn Aarhus
Jens Jørgen Watson Hoppe Under 1 - Barn Aarhus
Marie Hansen 27 Ugift Tyende Estruplund Sogn
Marie Dorthea Jensen 17 Ugift Tyende Aarhus
Louise Magdalene Hammershøi 78 Enke Husmoder Aarhus
Carl Theodor Hammershøi 48 Ugift Søn Sæbesyder Aarhus
Julie Wilhelmine Hammershøi 36 Ugift Datter Aarhus
Ane Birgitte Petersen 29 Ugift Tyende Fruering Sognteh

Have to dive deeper into this, never heard of Fanny. So even others in
the family might have been there (like a sister?) or even a daughter
staying behind (isn't she young in 1865 to have stayed behind however).
Just fee and it is a tricckle thoughts on an other possibility.

Aarhus church books are on a CD

Which I don't have.


nor do I and it is a tricky dos thing
copies in the danish archives

southern Jutland and the bit which became Prussia then northern Germany
in 1864 are also possibilities

The line was severed by the war and the southern end not paid for

one possible employer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Morton_Peto


Peto then entered into partnership with Edward Betts, who had married
his sister, Ann[2].

Between 1846 and 1855, the firm carried out many large railway contracts
both at home and abroad, among them the South-Eastern Line and the
London, Chatham & Dover lines, and in partnership with Thomas Brassey
the London, Tilbury & Southend line and the Grand Trunk Railway of
Canada[3]. In the late 1850s he helped to build the first railway in
Algeria and accompanied Napoleon III to the official opening of the line[4].

In 1854 during the Crimean War Peto, Betts and Brassey constructed the
Grand Crimean Central Railway between Balaklava and Sevastopol to
transport supplies to the troops at the front line[5]. In February the
following year he was made a Baronet, of Somerleyton Hall in the County
of Suffolk, for his services. <<

a Baptist !!!
and if your WATSON was one they did not christen children at all

involved in the financial crisis of 1866, was declared bankrupt

Overend, Gurney & Company was a London wholesale discount bank,
known as "the bankers' bank", which collapsed in 1866 owing about 11

million pounds. Until events at Northern Rock in September 2007, it was
the last run on a British bank.

The business was founded in 1800 as Richardson, Overend and Company by
Thomas Richardson of London and John Overend of Nottingham. Samuel
Gurney (1786-1856), a Norwich banker later took control of the bank. The
Gurneys were a well known Quaker family with banking interests.

The bank's core business was the buying and selling of bills of exchange
at a discount. It was well respected, and expanded rapidly, reaching a
turnover double its competitors combined. An adviser expanded the bank's
investment portfolio, and the bank took on substantial investments in
railways and other long term investments rather than holding short term
cash reserves as was necessary for their role. It found itself with
liabilities of around £4 million, and liquid assets of only £1 million.

To try to cover their liquidity, the business was incorporated as a
limited company in July 1865, with its £15 shares issued at a £9
premium. Its difficulties only increased, and it requested assistance
from the Bank of England, but it was refused. The bank suspended
payments on 10 May 1866. Panic spread across the City of London the
following day, with large crowds around its offices at 65 Lombard
Street. The financial crisis following the collapse saw the bank rate
rise to 10 per cent for three months. More than 200 companies, including
other banks, failed as a result. The bank went into liquidation in June
1866. <<

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overend,_G ... nd_Company
googling
JFJ jernbane

Jydsk-Fyenske Jernbaner the operating company whose records partiallly
survive
I have been reading the first couple of years accounts in MSS


and substantial payments to Peto, Betts and Brassey were made
no doubt to the office in Aarhus

also the purchase of 500 tons of rails
probably from the works / factory

the civil engineering involved building tip wagons to move spoil from
the excavations to the embankments along temporary track

not to mention finding gravel, sand bricks
no stone quarries because ther eis underlying boulder clay from the
ice age over chalk


your WATSON could have been supervising any of thse jobs or even ba an
accountant
I saw an irish one in Randers 1860 but I coul not do a quick find of the
reference on my own site :-(

http://www.bane.dk/visArtikel.asp?artikelID=256

1862, Første jernbane i Jylland åbnes fra Århus til Randers, som drives
af Det danske Jernbanedriftselskab. Der anvendes for første gang armsignaler



1865 Første jernbane på Fyn åbnes fra Nyborg til Strib

1867 De jysk-fynske Statsbaner overtager det private Det Danske
Jernbanedriftselskab, der havde haft alvorlige økonomiske problemer.

and those accounts are in the Danish National Archives on my trolley
the names names are all daihs / german

a John Louth

http://ddd.dda.dk/ is a pain blocking countrywide searchs

Data from DDD Emigration Database

Name: Watson, Robert Occupation: Landmand FARMER
Age: 27 Destination: NY.
Contract no.: 8200 Registration date: 1/25/1899
Birth place: ? Birth place: ?
Last res. parish: ? Last res. county: - Amerika
Last residence: Amerika Destination country: USA
Destination city: New York City Destination state: New York State
Name of ship: Indirekte ?via Liverpool ?
IDcode: I9899V0408


in the accounts monies were sent to

Hans Frederik Raae 59 Ugift Husfader Sparrekassekasserer Aarhus IE BANKER


Peter Frederik Rabertus Raae 51 Ugift Jernbanekasserer Aarhus


Eline Marie Raae 60 Ugift Deres Søster Aarhus
Gjertrud Cathrine Thomsen 54 Ugift Tjenestepige Aarhus

fromSamtlige personer i husstanden

Aarhus, Hasle, Aarhus Købstad, Århus Købstad 3, 6c/fredensgade, 42, FT
1880, A4181

=====
I am very interested because luckily I am a railway train spotter from
my cradle

(LMS steam trains at the bottom of my garden I was told - when I was
put in a pram to sleep at noon "The Cottage" Sutton Coldfiled)

I cross post to SGB because we are looking at a British Subject
and UK history too


regards

Hugh W

Richard van Schaik

Re: Birth of William H. Watson in Denmark abt. 1864

Legg inn av Richard van Schaik » 13. januar 2008 kl. 21.57

Hugh Watkins wrote:

Richard van Schaik wrote:

Sorry, cut huge part on the below, but stored every bit of it on my
computer ofcourse.

Could be, but then which year and which parish (retorical question).

trace the collateral lines in the UK census

I will, but just got so much data on my surname that I'm of the streets
and out of the pubs for several days.


Thanks, have to read on and on on this family, who said family research
is boring :-)

a Baptist !!!
and if your WATSON was one they did not christen children at all

A christening just before marriage as adult ..... might be, never
thought of this as as yet I didn't have had to deal with Baptists.

your WATSON could have been supervising any of thse jobs or even ba an
accountant

With "Railway contractor" indicated as job in the english census it
could indeed go anyway as above.

Name: Watson, Robert Occupation: Landmand FARMER
Age: 27 Destination: NY.
Contract no.: 8200 Registration date: 1/25/1899
Birth place: ? Birth place: ?
Last res. parish: ? Last res. county: - Amerika
Last residence: Amerika Destination country: USA
Destination city: New York City Destination state: New York
State
Name of ship: Indirekte ?via Liverpool ?
IDcode: I9899V0408

This one I don't get yet in relation, but seen the numbers of Watson in
on british sites there might have been a shipload of them in Denmark
without recognizable family relations.

I am very interested because luckily I am a railway train spotter from
my cradle

So I'm again very lucky having stumbled on a search for a railway
related person and you being both in Denmark as well as in England. Thanks!

I cross post to SGB because we are looking at a British Subject
and UK history too

I'll leave the crosspost, but as yet the connection is very feeble to
the British side (apart from him having been there after 1881 onwards
and probably dying there (FreeBMD data yet to be confirmed)). And
probably before 1860 as W. Durham already indicated. Its a tantalizing
person in research within the british notation system (my opinion).

Regards,
Richard

--
Richard van Schaik
f.m.a.vanschaikREMOVE@THISwanadoo.nl
http://www.fmavanschaik.nl/

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