Translation Please?

[Gary Erickson]

In examining 1872 baptismal records from a church in Møre og Romsdal, I
have found the short sentence, "Begges förste Leiermaal." Hva betyr dette?

I am referring to the "Ordbok for slektsforskere," av Terje A. Tetmo,
but am still not completely sure of the translation to English.

Er det noen som kan hjelpe meg? Takk på forhånd.


Gary

[Kelly]

Gary Erickson wrote:

In examining 1872 baptismal records from a church in Møre og Romsdal,
I have found the short sentence, "Begges förste Leiermaal." Hva
betyr dette?
I am referring to the "Ordbok for slektsforskere," av Terje A. Tetmo,
but am still not completely sure of the translation to English.

Er det noen som kan hjelpe meg? Takk på forhånd.


Gary

It means they'd had sex resulting in a child before being married.

K.R.P

[Gary Erickson]

Kelly wrote:

Gary Erickson wrote:
In examining 1872 baptismal records from a church in Møre og Romsdal,
I have found the short sentence, "Begges förste Leiermaal." Hva
betyr dette?
I am referring to the "Ordbok for slektsforskere," av Terje A. Tetmo,
but am still not completely sure of the translation to English.

Er det noen som kan hjelpe meg? Takk på forhånd.


Gary

It means they'd had sex resulting in a child before being married.

K.R.P

KRP,

Thank you for responding and for your definition. Your interpretation
tells me that my understanding was close, but not precise. Terje Tetmo
defines leiermaal as samleie utenfor ekteskapet. The word leiermaal
appears to be a noun. In addition to this example above - with the use
of the adjective "første," I have found the adjective "3de" applied to a
subsequent use of leiermaal in relation to the individual at issue here.
As I said, it appears the word is a noun.

At this point, my question becomes more sociological in nature. In an
attempt to parse the definition even further, does leiermaal indicate
"sex before marriage," or is there a sociological/cultural distinction
indicating more specifically, as you translate,. . . sex before marriage
- resulting in a child?

Thank you for bearing with me,

Gary

[Kelly]

Gary Erickson wrote:

Kelly wrote:
Gary Erickson wrote:
In examining 1872 baptismal records from a church in Møre og
Romsdal, I have found the short sentence, "Begges förste
Leiermaal." Hva betyr dette?
I am referring to the "Ordbok for slektsforskere," av Terje A.
Tetmo, but am still not completely sure of the translation to
English. Er det noen som kan hjelpe meg? Takk på forhånd.


Gary

It means they'd had sex resulting in a child before being married.

K.R.P



KRP,

Thank you for responding and for your definition. Your
interpretation tells me that my understanding was close, but not
precise. Terje Tetmo defines leiermaal as samleie utenfor
ekteskapet. The word leiermaal appears to be a noun. In addition to
this example above - with the use of the adjective "første," I have
found the adjective "3de" applied to a subsequent use of leiermaal in
relation to the individual at issue here. As I said, it appears the
word is a noun.
At this point, my question becomes more sociological in nature. In an
attempt to parse the definition even further, does leiermaal indicate
"sex before marriage," or is there a sociological/cultural distinction
indicating more specifically, as you translate,. . . sex before
marriage - resulting in a child?

Thank you for bearing with me,

Gary

Well, Terje Tetmo is right in his definition, of course, but as we normally
see, there was more often than not a child involved (how else could they
find out??)
So often when you see 'her 3rd leiermaal', you'll see that 'she' has three
children out of wedlock. 'Leiermaal' is a noun and it means what you said
above 'samleie' - sexual intercourse, but added to that, the idea that it
was outside wedlock. You do not use the word 'leiermaal' for a married
couple, for instance, unless there was a third person involved. I hope I've
expressed myself clearly enough-:)

Kelly R. Petit

[Gary Erickson]

Kelly,

Thank you for your outstanding clarification. It was exactly what I was
hoping to learn from this word's construction. You've given me the
grammar and sociological usage; it can't be any better than that!

Thanks again for your efforts,

Gary

[dn21210]

Fra dansk, sammensatt av leger - som betyr leie eller samleie, og mål som betyr rettssak. Dette betyr straffbart samleie, d.v.s. utenfor ekteskap
From Danish - a compound word of "leger" meaning sexual intercourse, and "mål" meaning trial. That means punishable sexual intercourse, i.e. outside wedlock.

Frode

[Helmer Christiansen (Onca]

There was a distiction between lejermaal and hor (=adultery).

In a _Lejermaal_ both man and woman were unmarried. They were punished with
a fine of 3/4 pound of silver for the man and half the amount for the woman
(Christian V's Danish Law 6-13-1 from 1683. Probably the same rule applied
in his Norwegian Law). Soldiers were exempted from lejermaal fines if it was
a first time offence. If the couple later married the fines were reduced.

_Hor_ was adultery committed by married people. Third time offence punished
by death. The man beheaded and the woman put in a sack and drowned (DL
6-13-24).

[Otto Jørgensen]

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:19:33 GMT, in soc.genealogy.nordic Gary
Erickson <gerickso@tds.net> wrote:

In examining 1872 baptismal records from a church in Møre og Romsdal, I
have found the short sentence, "Begges förste Leiermaal." Hva betyr dette?

I am referring to the "Ordbok for slektsforskere," av Terje A. Tetmo,
but am still not completely sure of the translation to English.

Er det noen som kan hjelpe meg? Takk på forhånd.

http://home.online.no/~otjoerge/files/word.htm
--
Otto Jørgensen
http://www.bkwin.info/
All email is checked by NIS2006

[Gary Erickson]

Hei Otto,

Imponerende! URL'en din er nå en del av "Favorittene mine."

Mange takk.

Gary

Otto Jørgensen wrote:

http://home.online.no/~otjoerge/files/word.htm

[Gary Erickson]

Hei Helmer,

Oi! Kan du si meg inntil hvilket år i Norge var disse sakene?

Dette var en god beskrivelse, en god forklaring. Takk.


Gary

Helmer Christiansen (Oncable.dk) wrote:

There was a distiction between lejermaal and hor (=adultery).

In a _Lejermaal_ both man and woman were unmarried. They were punished with
a fine of 3/4 pound of silver for the man and half the amount for the woman
(Christian V's Danish Law 6-13-1 from 1683. Probably the same rule applied
in his Norwegian Law). Soldiers were exempted from lejermaal fines if it was
a first time offence. If the couple later married the fines were reduced.

_Hor_ was adultery committed by married people. Third time offence punished
by death. The man beheaded and the woman put in a sack and drowned (DL
6-13-24).

[Gary Erickson]

Hei Frode,

Takk for svaret ditt. Vet du om dette var en vanlig hendelse, noe at
kirken måtte reagere ofte til? Jeg har ikke lest om disse sakene før.

Gary

Frode Kristoffersen wrote:

Fra dansk, sammensatt av leger - som betyr leie eller samleie, og mål
som betyr rettssak. Dette betyr straffbart samleie, d.v.s. utenfor
ekteskap
From Danish - a compound word of "leger" meaning sexual intercourse,
and "mål" meaning trial. That means punishable sexual intercourse,
i.e. outside wedlock.

Frode
--
Postet fra DIS-Norges tjeneste Slektsforum
https://slektsforum.slektogdata.no/

[Jan]

Sun, 09 Sep 2007 20:43:40 GMT, Gary Erickson <gerickso@tds.net>;
<0WYEi.38474$G23.28791@newsreading01.news.tds.net>;
<soc.genealogy.nordic>:

Takk for svaret ditt. Vet du om dette var en vanlig hendelse, noe at
kirken måtte reagere ofte til? Jeg har ikke lest om disse sakene før.

Det er ofte notert i kirkebøkene i forbindelse med dåp av barnet.
--
/Jan
<jan@jpharo.net>